What is "good enough?"

On the line snapping thread I mentioned this and I think it deserves its own thread.

When you roof, what is your standard for quality, and WHO determines it? Do you lead or do you follow?

I try to be perfect and usually wind up pretty close to that. It should look perfect and must perform perfectly. I determine when it is time to say job well done, check please.

This thread and the Quality control thread go hand in hand, BUT I would like to keep them seperate if possible because they are two different things. If I understand your post, yours is a visual determination, and there has to be some time lag to see if it performs "perfectly" If your customer was blind, how would they know that the job was "close" to perfect?

Sounds like the manufacturers have minimum standards and you have "Mike" or "Maximum" standards. I know looking at pictures of your work over these last few years, that I would have absolutely no misgivings about having you do work on one of my buildings.

Quality pays in the long and the short run. If we can see that; and we can, so can the average consumer. If all other things are equal, the average consumer is going to opt for higher over lower quality and we will get the work. There is more value there, and ultimately that is what we all want.

I did not read the whole thread. It kind of became an argument. But to answer your question 1/2" @ the ridge MAX.

i try to do everything like it was my house. i do a lot of little things that nobody see to make the job better-ice guard around chimney and such. a good job brings nothing but referals and more jobs. a clean job site is a big plus in my book. leave the grounds like you found them-no little pieces of shingles or nails in the yard or bushes.

It's good enough when you can look back with pride and say I did that.

Copperman. Nice stuff, Yeah, I would say that would count!

Craftesman Good point. After the basics are taken care of, it is definetly a lot of little things that makes the whole better. continual improvement

Kind of depends on the system, the customer, what were the priorities of the customer, was it bid, negotiated, premium or bargain basement.

We do systems of all types and shapes for customers with long term vision and shoestring customers just trying to get by for a while.

What I have found though, is that our shoe-string system is likely to be as good as, or better than the "premium" that many of my competitors will sell. My bare minimums are manufacturer's spec's.

I posted a job with lots of pics last spring. It was a very difficult job. Both the consultant and the mfr's inspector gave my Supt. a round of applause when they finished the inspection. They aren't all perfect, but we try real hard to do it right.

Good response Mike! I think that sums it up for a lot of us.

I might add that individual aesthetic perceptions don't always determine the quality of the work.

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: Of course I will be talking about roofing membranes in my case, Good enough is; It doesnt leak, and wont leak in the future All seam lines are straight and parallel seams are facing away from the prevailing wind if possible seams are facing away from upstairs windows no footprints visible the customer is happy with the job

of less importance but still relevant is that the manufacurers rep. can come on the roof and find no faults. The reason this is of less a priority is that thier standards ( from what I have seen) are lower than mine. :dry:

Boy Frank, when you think of it, that is pretty profound. "Hopefully never see the light of day" If we do it right, it will not leak and it never should be "uncovered" It is what we do when no one is looking that will really make a difference in the long run!

Yeah.I try to be as perfect as possible to the bldg I`m working on s=13http://www.rooferscoffeeshop.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=78&albumid=340&file=2396&s=13

You are asking What is good enough? Maybee we should be looking at the worst jobs we have ever done and look at why that was good enough.

Most roofers will tell you there shingles are always straight, never had a leak, no high nails, no shiners, accidentally cut a shingle to short on a wall or vent stack etc, Spilled some tar or glue, scuffed a shingle, Left a nail or Garbage on the roof, Uneven overhang, dropped a nail on a rubber roof and patched, Pissed behind the bushes,Drop a scrap in a vent hole, Let out the f word, I could go on and on and in all reality none of this is considered good enough when talking to other roofers on a message board -- But i am sure we are all guilty to some extent of one or all of these mishaps in the past.

So if you do what you tell the customer you are going to do - The customer is happy and gives you a check - you have no callbacks or rectify any complaints - i would say that would be considered good enough.

I could almost guarentee i could walk on any roof anywhere and i would find something that would not be considered good enough in a roofers eyes. Even the hacks out there will tell you if you did something wrong even though they may have just gotten done doing the same thing.

What i do not like to see when i pull up to the job when it is supposed to be done is 1. Garbage in the yard bushes (cigarette butts) 2. Shingles sticking up 3. crooked Metal chimney - wall - pipes etc.. 4. Marks on the siding 5. Crooked ridge lines 6. exposed nails that are not at least pookied - or way too many 7. that little piece of plastic on the rake edge / valley after you cut it 8. Shingles that are so crooked you can see them from the ground or out a window

The top 7 i run into most -- my guys tend to keep shingles straight 99% of the time and they really do not like me ripping their shingles up - Besides everyone on the crew knows when they need a line

9 out of 10 times i would have these problems fixed and would make the responsible person due it or charge them for my time to fix the problem. On top of letting them know right in front of everyone else on the crew -

The top 7 i run into most -- my guys tend to keep shingles straight 99% of the time and they really do not like me ripping their shingles up - Besides everyone on the crew knows when they need a line -minnesota

Kind of why it lets people know to take their time ,rather than rush thru setting the shingles,and nailing--they like it better afterwards when I go over their stuff again,and don`t have to,Then they know they can be proud of their work,and understand the difference

Those are certainly good things to look for, and something that all of us should do. I would say that those ae the minimum basics to make oursleves happy and to make the customer happy. Has anyone ever done anything "spectacular" or over the top to impress the customer. The extra details and such. I know that one guy always put a metal "bird" on the gutter of his jobs. Some guys will always paint the soil pipes to match the shingles. Does anyone have a "signature" that they leave on their jobs to show that it was theirs?