What is "good enough?"

Heres your pic john

I guess that says quite a bit!

I'll just say that all my roofers always complained about me making them do things the best possible way. You know how roofers are. They are like poker players. Everyone thinks their the best that ever lived. Its an Ego thing! lol

copperman Said: Its good enough when you can look back with pride and say I did that.

Had to stop,and say that copperwork looks fantastic,I`m sure if I saw it in person,I`d have a new definition of perfection-sweet job !!

Good enough... is when you deliver to your customer's expectation. The trick to to make sure you and your customer have the same expectation.

We have all seen roofs where they "racked" the shingles straight up the roof with a 6" offset and never bothrered to strike any lines. It is not uncommon to look down the rows and see a 2 to 4 inch "wah wah" in the rows. Even if they pull a line at the top to straighten them out so they look straight from the ground, this would not be acceptable to me. I like to see the rows all be parrallel to each other and there is no reason in my mind that there should be more than a 1/4" deflection from straight on anything.

When nailing or stapling, even on the Certain Teed shingles where they have the "wide track" I like to see the fasteners evenly spaced across the whole length of the shingle and within the "small" lines that they "recomend" for best performance. Nails should be driven "flat" and not cutting into the shingle. The bottom shingle should overhang the drip edge about 3/8 to 1/2" That would be "good enough" for us!

I have developed my system over the years. It amounts to a many small things I do differently. I run a vertical chalkline to make sure the tile is laid square, even on shake tile. I make an extra miter cut on the trim where it meets at the top of a hip. Even though tile specs allow a variety of flashing options, I always go with the option that keeps water above the tile even though most are more labor intensive. I blend the tile while loading and never have color blotches. I was using antiponding metal on almost all jobs for 10 years before it was required. I use 6v valley, while most competitors use 5v or single v. My underlayment upgrades are different than my competitors. I clean all cutting dust stains off the tile.............

I rarely even tell potential customers of these differences, I just do them because they are MY standards.

Woody, it is often the things that we do even if no one is looking that make the difference. Well done!

---Some good lists to compare to. ---I am always finding roofing salesmen who try and upgrade the specs to sell quality and gain an edge on the competition. ---One company hand nails all their comp. I say, fine and you pay a premium for it. I can handnail also...no big deal to me. And one advertised "hot dipped" galv. nails not EG galv nails. Quality counts, huh? ---Another uses 30# instead of 15 lb felt. In my opinion it only upgrades the price. Why change the manuf. specs? Unless there is a compelling reason (low slope or another) 30# is just a waste of money. ---Another uses 6 nails not just the skimpy 4 that the manuf. calls for. Hey why not use 20 nails? Unless it is a high wind area you are paying for "quality" that is not going to add one iota of real quality to the job. ---Another uses leads instead of neoprene pipe flashings. I suppose it is comforting to know that the flashings will outlast the roof. Perhaps they can save money by reusing them when it comes to a reroof? We use leads on 50 year shingles but why on 30 year shingles? ---You could use copper nails too...You could use 24 gauge flashings or 22 gauge...heck why not 2 gauge?...Why not gold plate the rim on your spare tire? Who cares if no one will ever see it in your trunk? I mean quality counts, doesn't it? Who wants something less? ---I have told people the 2 most important things in roofing are the material you choose, wood, metal, comp, tile, 30 year, 50 year...and the person who installs it. A roof is not a piece of oak furniture. From the ground few can see that things are not 100% straight. 98% straight is good enough in my book. Oak furniture has an asthetic value. While a roof should be attractive you still view it from a distance. ---The point that many cannot even remember what color their roof is only illustrates that people are not looking that closely at the finer details of a roof installation. It is fine to take pride in one's work. And sloppy work should not be allowed by a respectable company. Sloppy appearance means sloppy details means leaks... ---I think it is important to major in important things not major in the minors. They used 30# felt but put 4x4 metal behind the skylights. The skylights leaked. ---Quality varies depending on the product. A 50 year roof demands an upgrade in all the other componants. A 50 year metal roof with cheesy single ply built up gutters? So in about 15-20 years the 50 year roof will be worth what when the gutters have to be replaced? ---I see lots of gimics. Lanny

All very valid points. I strive to strengthen the "weakest link"

Good points lanny I adhere to a system for "boilerplate residential". We always install roofing the same way. We use the upgraded products much like you described, as needed. I will never disagree,however, with a homeowner about an upgrade he wants after I have explained why I think he doesn't need it.

johnny5...I am with you on that...The homeowner gets whatever he wants as long as it doesn't hurt the final product. ---I get quite a few that want edge metal down at the gutter. I know they make metal just for that and we have a lot of it at our shop. But I always talk people out of it. It is just a waste of metal in my book and another example of balony. 99% of the roofs we tear off don't have it so why do we need it now? Lanny

Old School said this was good enough ;) :)

Nice John.

Lanny, Depends where you are I suppose. I would'nt dream of doing a roof without edge metal, and up north you gotta have it for use in conjunction with I+W shield.