pvc roofs

Has anyone worked with I.B or SARNIFIL?>>>

I have no experience with IB. Their percentage of marketshare is small enough that it get's lumped in with the "other" category in the pie charts I've seen.

Sarnafil is the biggest pvc in the US, and a very good product. I install fair bit of it.

Fibertite is my PVC of choice. Never seen one fail in 27 years of putting it down.>>>

The company that I recently worked for (now closed) Invested in IB Systems products and equiptment in 2001. This has been a primary flat product over torchdown since.

The installation is about the same as torchdown on small projects where a hand welder is used, the trick is to apply the right amount of heat/time per foot to get a good weld.

On larger projects where a robot welder is used, the installation speed is faster.

+..+..+.. No cant strip req., and is durable under ponding water (so long as you get a proper weld), various clad metal and additional accesory designs to choose from (no primer needed.>>>

It seems that Grace I&W and Sarnafil both became popular in the Boston area around the same time.....trendy engineering firms struggled with the Carlilse vs firestone vs good old T&G for a long time, and just like in the music industry.....graft paid off.....Brand name PVC or epdm was the norm....."or equal" was a salesman's dilemna.....most jobs were one or the other, and roof shops that repaired T&G , eventually only did that.....Remodelor's grade RPI rubber, and other generic named epdm with term bars started showing up on residential flat 3 deckers throughout the cities, but at the university and industrial levels....if you weren't approved for Firestone or Carlilse, you had nothing to bid on. As in everything roof wise..... Install those systems before any penetrations exist, and you have a great day.....start working around stuff, and the hair pulling begins.>>>

Do any of you have any info on the coeifficient of expansion and contraction for modern day pvc. When it first came out it was 25 times greater than copper which is as I recall 8 times 10 to the minus 5, and suffered all kinds of movement. Hopefully, it has been improved to the point where it may be used as a successful roofing membrane.>>>

elcid Said: Do any of you have any info on the coeifficient of expansion and contraction for modern day pvc. When it first came out it was 25 times greater than copper which is as I recall 8 times 10 to the minus 5, and suffered all kinds of movement. Hopefully, it has been improved to the point where it may be used as a successful roofing membrane.

You are probably referring to the unreinforced Trocal roof membrane, which broke apart like a sheet of shattered glass.

Ed>>>

any info on what to do if your boss dose not your prevaling wage(who to talk to)>>>

If you boss is not paying prevailing wages, then contact your state industrial commission. You will not be revealed to your employer.>>>

Those expansion/ stability issues are the reasons for the dragging of the reputation of the systems in the first place. But where else to develope the engineering and technology of the product than the most prominant engineering universities in the world...MIT, Harvard, Wentworth....etc. Trocal....... owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

as far as prevailing wage jobs....once the audit is done, you would be notified, asked to submit evidence to support your claim, and then receive your check, as well as lien documents etc....releasing the violating contractor fro further litigation. How do you know when your not receiving prevailing wages? possibility work experience with the offending company will be examined. I would privately approach your employer and advise him that he is not in compliance, and if he doesn't straighten out, then you have no choice but to testify against him. Maybe YOU are receiving prevailing wage. depends on the location.....Boston Roofers make a little more than rural areas...so be sure that they're not in compliance before you put your steel toed boots in your mouth. >>>

I would beg to differ on that one. Questioning the employer will be the first sign of being the snitch if he turns them in later.

A simple call to the industrial commission and they will be able to tell him from the information on his pay stub if he is being paid correctly. If he is not, an audit will prove the offense, he will get his money, as well as everyone else on the crew, and a backhanded contractor will get the punishment he deserves. If all is OK, then the end result is No-harm-no-foul.>>>

I agree with you Mike, I was just giving the guy who hired him the benefit of the doubt without calling his entire operation in front of the board....I've been on jobs where, when it came down to the arbitration hearings, it was discovered that the guy was hired as a laborer, and actually was being paid more than prevailing rates I find closed shops, and a few ABC shops are close knit operations that take care of things in house. No reason for a simple clerical oversight to bring your operation to the attention of the powers that be.>>>

I was advised by an attorney, that prevailing rate jobs means that you pay the employee for the work he performs. During the course of 8 hours a roofing job could possibly require a roofer, or a carpenter, or an electrician, or a plumber, or a laborer, etc., etc. Technically, each rate is applicable but burdensome to execute.>>>

It seems the origonal topic has been h-jacked....so I will jump in on the new topic.

What happens when your best crew does not reach thier respective goals each day out on a prevailing wage job (when same crew is capable of same production under a piece work system). By law, the employer is required to pay the full 8 hours for each man. But I have seen where only 6 hours were paid to each crew member because of lack of prodution even though they worked 8. As a worker, I did not like this tactic, but after it was explained to me, it made sense.

WHY?

It is common tactic that workers will tend to slow down to gaurantee they get to work thier 8 hrs. The job will likely go over budget when it is completed. The roofers win. If the emplyer only pays the 6 hrs, then the company stands to profit more, the company wins. How do you cancel this problem?

Now the company takes all labor hrs and converts it to piece work, and that is the labor budget for the entire job. It is up to the foreman to have the right men to perform, it is an incentive for he will bonus at the end of the job. Now the company has finished the job early. The roofers exceeded prodution just about every day...no one loses.>>>

Robby the Roofer Said: It seems the origonal topic has been h-jacked....so I will jump in on the new topic.

What happens when your best crew does not reach thier respective goals each day out on a prevailing wage job (when same crew is capable of same production under a piece work system). By law, the employer is required to pay the full 8 hours for each man. But I have seen where only 6 hours were paid to each crew member because of lack of prodution even though they worked 8. As a worker, I did not like this tactic, but after it was explained to me, it made sense.

WHY? This is illegal. Yes it's done. Infuriates the helloughtame. But it's done. If the guys turn the company in to the authorities, the company will pay

It is common tactic that workers will tend to slow down to gaurantee they get to work thier 8 hrs. The job will likely go over budget when it is completed. The roofers win. If the emplyer only pays the 6 hrs, then the company stands to profit more, the company wins. How do you cancel this problem?

isn't that the great question of the hour? LOL

Now the company takes all labor hrs and converts it to piece work, and that is the labor budget for the entire job. It is up to the foreman to have the right men to perform, it is an incentive for he will bonus at the end of the job. Now the company has finished the job early. The roofers exceeded prodution just about every day...no one loses.

If that were legal to seperate into piece work, it would great, but it's not. There's no problem paying them more per hour if they earn by piece-bonus, but you can't pay them less per hour. It would be great if every forman took the incentive to see the company profit, but they don't.

>>>

The concept here is....to convert to piece work rate. I will use the last prevailing job I worked as an example.

After the conversion, we were required to t/off 9 sq a day and put back 11 sq the next day. when you average it out, that will be 10 sq off and on per day for each man. My 4 man crew were capable of tearing off 10 sq a day each man. After a few days of tear off, I added one man to our crew to put the new shingles on. We completed 4 days of work in three. We were only paid the prevailing rate per day until the job was completed. The remaining converted piece work dollars would be bonused out to the workers as an incentive for increased production and early job completed.

The company was ok with this process because they would not lose any money and profits stay the same.>>>

Yes, that's fine. As long as the guys are NOT PAID LESS than full prevailing wage rate for every hour worked, the State doesn't care what you get paid.

I've tried to get my guys to agree to a piece rate on numerous occassions, and they won't do it. I don't understand why. I would have jumped at the chance years ago.>>>