EPDM or Torch Down??

Mac....I couldn't find an email address to contact you when I was looking at your website. I noticed a small typo that could be misleading, the one paragraph about the yellow clapboard house in Marshfield....50,000 sq ft. I can't see that that is a 500 sq job. Nice website BTW>>>

Hi Builder, it is a typo, the company who built the site, is not quick on fixing errors, there were a lot at one time. It was 56 sqs.

Thanks for checking it out >>>

and yes Vaa, we have, I do not know where u got 1963 from, the parent company was actually incorporated in 1950. And that company has been installing epdm for approx 30 yrs, and yes it has been over a million, and I wd say that is conservative. That wd equate into approx 33,000 sqs per year, on avg. And no, the call backs that we have gone back to were very seldom, if ever due to apllicator error.

I understand VAa that it is hard for you to fathom a company being able to avg 250-300 sqs FA installed. But that is what the company does.

We are not a 1-3 man operation.

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Jed, glad you still have nothing intelligent to say, at least vaa, Aarron, et.all are able to debate, and put forth reasoning behind their thoughts and beliefs.

I have plenty to say, but I don't suffer fools gladly nor mock the afflicted. You have already been kicked out of here twice that I know of for acting the idiot. If you were even slighty capable in conversing on a semi intelligent scale without the typos, shorthand text, and with a hint of roofing knowledge I have yet to see it.>>>

Well, thank goodness I am not trying to impress you Jed. Or i wd be in despair. >>>

Well, thank goodness I am not trying to impress you Jed. Or i wd be in despair.

Oh. I wouldn't go that far, embarking on an excersise in futility, yes......but then I'm sure you are used to that.>>>

Randy,

In an attempt to avoid the amazing interactions here, I'll just say this:

1. I have no idea how many squares of APP modifieds or epdm we've installed. It's been a bunch of both. Not a million squares, but at least a couple hundred thousand of each.

2. In my opinion, a 2 ply modified with full 4mm (160 mil) sheets, is one of the best roofs you get. A 2 ply Derbigum is the best, imho. Other app's pale in comparison.

3. A single ply of polyester reinforced, commodity grade APP which I would consider Firestone app 160, Manville Apex 4, Polyglass, flintlastic, et al......... is a decent low cost roof, but not nearly as good as a 60 mil, non-reinforced epdm.

4. Reinforced EPDM, particularly 45 mil, is showing a lot of problems from surface deterioration that leaves the threads exposed to weather.

5. Surface deterioration of EPDM starts the minute that UV rays make contact.

6. Surface deterioration of APP modified bitumen starts the minute that UV rays make contact.

7. 45 mil EPDM will often start to pinhole around 20 years of age. Haven't seen pinholing in 60 mil yet.

8. The vast, VAST majority of EPDM installed in the US is installed in the NE quadrant, taking in all of the great lakes and coastal region. UV is not a huge problem here for EPDM. If you live in the south, or high elevation, EPDM will deteriorate much quicker.>>>

I have installed 100 EPDM squares a day with two other guys. I dont like the roof.

Yes, on a cut to shit job, EPDM isnt as fast I can flash a stink pipe as fast as you can. On the right jobs mod bit can be faster. Just the way it is.>>>

Aarron, how wd u say it takes you to flash a stink pipe via torch down and how long for EPDM?>>>

and let me clarify a cple things,I know that the degredation starts immediately, what I was trying to say was that at yr 45 (approx) is when crosses that demarcation line to where the product level of breaking down, and subsequent degredation will have a marked affect on performance.

Also, Mike, For about the last 30 yrs we have been almost exclusively epdm installers, when prior to that, like most others, we were mostly asphalt based, primarilly B.U.R There is still Two of the aeroil tanker trucks parked in the yard.

And, BTW I do not believe that an FA epdm roof is the best, if cost was not a factor I would rather a b.u.r (at least 5 ply) Probably an old owens corning double eagle wd top that list.

But, with that being said, single ply has done extremely well, when I say that we have roofs down for approx 30 yrs and they are still performing as they should, I meant it.

Btw, I didnt put down torch down, I just believe, an allbeit more based on what i know about epdm and How I now to install it, that it is a better overall value.

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I dk what I cd do for time on a torch down stink pipe aaron, it has been about 15 yrs, but It wdnt take more than two minutes to do it with epdm.>>>

Mike Hicks, Thank You sir...that was a very useful post for me and I know you have done a ton of this stuff. Thanks buddy!

Mike from NZ.....thanks for that link and your website is a nice, helpful place. I like the link to the book you offer.

All others...thanks for your input and help. I am just trying to learn.

Thanks!>>>

I think you may be a hopeless case VAA

We install Firestone. And the numbers I wrote are correct, I understand if you don't believe it. But with the right equipment, mentality, attitude, people and gameplan, and the desire it can be acheived

regarding the approx 45 yr to major degredation, that comes from the manufacturer. And seeing as how we have roofs still performing at about the 30 yr mark their calculations appear to be correct. The hot and cold roof is based mostly upon the presence of heat to the underside of the sheathing that is roofed, you own pics show that, if there is a space, the the heat from the building gets dispersed in that cavity.

Vaa I wd suggest you don't limit yourself to what others do, or say can only be done, and go beyond that. Work hard and you can exceed current limits. Too many pple see what the industry "norm" is on things like volume and qaulity and they adhere to that.

You can move beyond and help the industry as a whole evolve. >>>

Does that include the glue flashing off? aplying the lap seal, clamp, etc?>>>

when you think about how much roofing someone like Tecta America and all of it's licensees, or General Roofing, or Tremco, or whatever conglomerate is on the podium.... they install brazillions of squares......never a problem...blah blah blah.

We all agree that if they let the roofers on the roof before everyone else, a football field so to speak...then production becomes a pleasure..... but start doinking around every penetration, and every accessory that the manufacturer recommends to marry their roof product to the penetration product, then we got a ball game. Ideally....I would want to have an open field before everyone else starts cutting into my work, and the option of being offered an addendum by the penetrating subcontractor to tie in their work, rather than have one of their hot shot guys go up with a caulking gun and do what they thinks best. Because when it gets right down to it, you , the roofer are responsible, and allowing "joeshit the rag man" to silicone his pipe flashing onto your firestone job is a mistake made by both...him doing it, and you allowing it.

I'm still a proud advocate of pitch and copper.... >>>