TPO vs Roof Restoration: NEED SOME IMPUT!

I need some help here from TPO guys and even those who do roof restorations (coating, fabric and even chopped fiberglass). I recently was on an inspection and a property owner asked my advice. The roof was the original asphalt and gravel roof. Two contractors biding, both were spudding/powerbrooming.

Contractor One was offering a roof restoration with a 10-year warranty (20-22 gallons of emulsion with fabric and 3 gallons of elastomeric coating per square).

Contractor Two was proposing a 45 mil TPO, slip-sheet and a mfg 10 year warranty. I personally always favored roof restoration but there wasn't that much difference in price- The TPO came with a mfg warranty backing the contractor after the first 2 years- I was kinda impressed how far TPO has come and how the price has dropped. What Say You?

Mike H I know you know TPO... Roofguy and Robert (Ford Roofing) I know you guys love CFE what say you?

First off, the Firestone TPO warranty probably has the same exclusions as the others and it's full of holes. The most troubling is that if the owner calls in a roof leak and it turns out to be an HVAC etc (as often happens) the building owner has to pay "investigative cost" or his warranty is null and void.

Secondly, any repairs may not be conducted by the installer, and the building owner has no control of who that contractor is.

Third, if the TPO spec is not removing loose gravel, weight could be an issue. The emulsion spec will result in a net weight LOSS on the deck of around 110 lbs per SQR.

Forth, they are not apples-to-apples specs. TPO is very lucky to last 10 years in Texas, and emulsion will last 25-40. That said, it is mostly a moot issue as the chances of either going 15 years without hail is slim.

Fifth, the emulsion spec is much more reliable and predictable in that if you have a leak it will be near the source. A TPO roof can leaks 70'+ from the source.

Roofers like it because it takes little investment in equipment or training, and you get to stay cleaner installing it. All of those things benefit the roofer, not the building owner.

TPO has some advantages on cut up jobs under 30 SQRS where it is impractical to fire up a chopping rig that does 100 sq. ft a minute, but everything else the emulsion roof is a better option.

Well they could at least use 60 mil. From what I've read 45 mil is really what made TPO look SO bad.

Knowing nearly nothing about emulsion roofs, I can't really compare. I know what I've seen Roofguy talk about.

I would recommend the emulsion/polyester system hands-down - especially over an existing BUR. Been a state licensed contractor since 1983. Personally, I don't like TPO, Although we haven't experienced the magnitude of TPO failures some have, I can say we still have the old Henry emulsion/poly systems still in use after 20+ years.

We primarily do TPO now, strictly due to the local industry standards, (sheeplism). We get shot down by the typical superior salesmanship of our not-so-bright competitors here - so we must do as in Rome......

When I was a state licensed roofing contractor, the only contact I had with TPO was repairing/restoring it, most of my restorations were elastomeric and polyester (KM Coatings & Western Colloid)- Tim (roofguy) taught me about chopped fiberglass which I loved, especially on asphalt and gravel roofs- but with TPO costs coming down even with a 1.5" & 2" insulation board, now with good MFG backed warranties- (like GAF and even Carlisle), roof restoration appears to be losing one of its biggest attractions to property owners, lower cost.

Which is better for taxes? Restoration - emulsion or new - TPO ?

Under the IRS code roof maintenance is usually tax deductible for the year the expense had incurred. Roof restoration usually falls under "current expenses" and is 100% tax deductible. While a new roof is a "capital expense" whitch is amortized over the life of the property or 39.5 years that is how I always presented to property owners.

From a tax advantage I still think the roof restoration is a better bet- if there is a hail event and there is a claim involved that may change the whole premise and make the "tax" issue moot. Of course if the property owner has a ACV policy verses a RCV policy that also changes the game... I'm not sure; I'm not a tax guy.

The only reason bidding cost is similar for the 2 systems is because that's the market. A TPO roof @ $250/SQR probably has a 30-40% margin whereas an emulsion roof at $250 has a much higher margin. The emulsion also goes down much faster.

If you're looking at where each has to bid to make, say $3,000 profit per day, the emulsion guy can lower his price to $150/SQR and watch the TPO'ers squirt.

If a price war is begun, TPO will lose.

"...make the "tax" issue mute."

Just to help out a fellow tradesman and not to nit-pick...(because I get the meaning you intended,) the word you were looking for is "moot." It means that something is merely debatable and will yield no practical outcome. One use of the other word, "mute," means the opposite...that no speech is possible. Another, the one that means a general softening, would have to be attached to an "ed" for it to make sense in this case.

Not that it matters much. It's just that moot is basically a legal term and anyone who understands the word and hears you say "mute" is going to think less of you rather than more. We don't want to be giving that type of person any easy opportunity to get condescending with us. They don't deserve it.

Thanks egg- It's kind of embarrassing since I did not proof read it carefully... and I have a minor in writing- but do appreciate you pointing it out.. all fixed

I guess I could see $250/sq if you had wide open running, no prep work, slip sheet, and no metal work. Absolute easiest roof ever. I hope that's a rate you picked randomly for conversation.

theroofmedic Said: Thanks egg- Its kind of embarrassing since I did not proof read it carefully... and I have a minor in writing- but do appreciate you point it out.. all fixed

I think you meant pointing. :cheer:

clover83 Said: I guess I could see $250/sq if you had wide open running, no prep work, slip sheet, and no metal work. Absolute easiest roof ever. I hope thats a rate you picked randomly for conversation.

It was random. However, our normal price for the chopped glass system with aluminum coating over smooth is $175-$185/SQR.

This is Texas and prices are cheap. Also, on the right roof that $175/SQR will net $23,000 in a day with 3 men...plus.

This is what I've been saying for a long time - there is far more to the equation than just price-per-square. Production is as important.

So, in theory, if the TPO guys got jumpy, we could lower our price to $95/SQR and still net $7,000.

We don't want to do that, and neither do the TPO guys - they can't win that battle.

OK.... From now on I'm using Word... unbelievable! Hope to meet some of you guys in Vegas next week... even you Tim maybe we can bury the hatchet over a beer.