They are hiring roofers

GKRFG Said: Im going to guess that Lefty is playing Devils Advocate here. I mean really, Youre going to tearoff and reroof 10 square each and every day for 52 weeks in the year. The contractor is going to keep you lined up with an uninterupted supply of jobs. Pay you promptly and not string you along for weeks. The weather is going to be perfect with no rain or snow, Your body will stand up to the punishment. Not gonna happen man, you know it. Youre going to get a 1099 which is going to cost you a third of your income. Youre going to carry GL and Work Comp. Your office/truck/dump trailer needs maintainence, insurance, gas. Your phone is gong to cost you a good $2 a day. Clothing, shoes, tools are going to wear out. Knife blades, saw blades. Youre going to install a sheet of plywood for $12 a sheet. :laugh: All of the materials you need are going to be there when you need them. And whats left you are going to split with your partner. Wait! I forgot about Obamacare! You have to have your health insurance. Did you vote for Obama? I guarantee you are going to be working for less than minimum wage.

I figured 200 work days a year. The weather we can not figure.

The Tax issue is moot. You will pay taxes no matter how you get paid.

You do not need workmans comp as there are no employees. You are partners.

The phone is a benefit not a cost. You use the same phone for your business and personel use. If you are working under this model of business you would see this as a benefit.

My clothes last a year. You buy clothes no matter where you work. So when I worked this model, I seen this as a benefit not a cost. Here it is a deduction if I work for someone else it is not a deduction.

My trucks need very little maintence when I am the only one driving them. Usually just inspection, brakes every other year, oil changes. The work truck is also my everyday truck. The wife has a car if I need to use a car instead of a truck without racks. So the truck also looks like a benefit not an exspense.

I do not need an office. My truck is probably my office. Although under this model I can use a part of my house as the office thus I get to use a portion of my house as a deduction. Looks like a benefit not a cost since only get to deduct my personel residence under this model.

There are guys out there that will give you steady work and pay you as soon as the work is done or within the week of your invoice. I had one guy that paid as soon as you gave him the bill. I had one guy that paid me before I was done. They actually get mad when you do work for someone else or the occasional job you get on your own. If you are good they will hustle to keep you working. That bullshit there is no work out there is a lie. I went into business when we had to get into gas lines on certain days to get gas to work. They guy I was subing from did not want to lose me so he made sure I had work. That was at the end of Carter's reign.

If your wife works the only requirement she needs in the job is that it pays for the health insurance. Under this model your insurance does not play a factor.

I ran this way for years.

Lefty, I don't dis agree with you. You just keep skipping over these job requirements.

Dump Truck or traler PROFESSIONAL Tools Work Comp You Must Do the whole roof in a day

Phone and bank

Udder'n dat, yes, IF you can find a contractor who demands quality I agree with you. 2 guys w/ no comp & no payroll can make a living doing this. But....you are still doing 10 sq per man, off/ on everyday of the workweek. Sure would not be banking much, if anything at the end of the year.

I'd like to find two quality oriented guys with PROFESSIONAL Tools like that as subs who would do 10-15 sq per day. I'd gladly pay them $65 plus per sq. I could compete better with the $240-250 sq. going rate in my area.

Get over the do the roof in a day. I covered that in the first response.

Everything else you just posted there I address.

I see guys doing this all the time. If you invest your money right, when you want to slow down, you can. I drank every penny I made when I worked like this. So that was not am option for me. Also I want to build a business. Which I am doing. So I know how to build a successful business under both models.

I have to laugh sometimes, sometimes cry. Most people tell me that what I am doing or have done can not be done.

Lefty Said: I could make a good living at that price. Done in one day I could not meet that part. Doing 10 square a day I would make $2250 a week, $112,500 a year. If I had a partner we split the earnings. There is very little paperwork. There is no collecting or selling.

Yes I could make a good living at them prices.

Sorry. You did.

I've been riding that horse this whole thread! :blush:

I don't know about your area Lefty but in mine it's not that way anymore. I ran that way for years also and when I lost my full service roofing business a few years back when the economy tanked, I had to look for work. No one wanted to hire me. Here I am a master roofer, still physically able with over 25 years experience and can't find work.

Today's "Roofing Companies", (nearly all of them are paper pushers), the general contractors and home builders all want an 8-10 man Mexican crew that will do just about any job in one day, for cheap, just like the ad states. I have even seen ads that specifically stated " I need a Mexican roofing crew". So much for equal opportunity employment.

I finally found ONE company to sub-contract from only to discover that I couldn't make a living for my family that way anymore ( residential re-roofs ) because the pay has either barely risen or is the same as 10-20 years ago but the cost of everything is 2-5 times higher.

So I forgot about roofing houses and started doing repair work for this company because they had more repair work than they could get done and only had a couple guys that were any good at it. I got paid by piece work and began to make a decent living again. Once I was back on my feet so to speak, I started my own repair business and that's what I do today. It hasn't been easy by any stretch of the imagination but it is coming along fine and growing with each passing day.

One man 10 sq off/ on everyday? With clean up and set up? 14 hr workdays? I don't actually remember my production back in the day. But it did include a helper.

I've done a few roofs by myself. Easy ones, like under 25 sq ranches.

Working like that at 46 yrs old, I think I would be dead within a few years. Another reason I chose repair work in addition to what I stated in my last reply.

I gotta head out to Homo Depot, pick up two power fans and install for this nice gentleman. You guys have a great day. I'll be back on later, after I spend the next few hours making Three days sub pay. Half of that will be traveling to/from the job and picking up supplies. Peace out!

Kick me if I am getting too old for this, but didn't I say a few pages back that the only one making any money off from this is the company that sold it? By a factor of 4 or 5?

Hey, it is tough to get someone to sell their soul. Chuck, I think you have the right idea. Work by YOURSELF, do the work YOURSELF, figure the work YOURSELF, Get paid by the building owner AT THE END OF THE DAY, and let your work sell your work.

One last thing, don't "answer" ads for subcontractors any more than you would for the ads that come on your computer saying "dearest, I am Samuel from Uganda and I want to send you $15,000,000...." Sheesh!

Here's a question I'd like to pose to you Lefty. As this might address the divide here:

If I got a shingle roofing job to do in LeHigh Valley, PA, and I wanted to sub it, how much would Holencik charge per square to the job?

No travel. Minimum specs. One layer, off/on a few vents, 2 valleys. Metal edging, pipe boots. No flashing. No dormers, dumpster or materials.

I'll go 1st: I'd be at $100 minimum. If someone had dozens of these, of course it would be a little less.

twill59 Said: One man 10 sq off/ on everyday? With clean up and set up? 14 hr workdays? I dont actually remember my production back in the day. But it did include a helper. Ive done a few roof s by myself. Easy ones, like under 25 sq ranches.

That is 20 sq. 10sq a day. 5 on - 5 off. 10 off and preped one day. Shingle 10 the next day.

I have done plenty of jack jobs by myself. My wife would help me jockey the dump around at night. Materials always delivered roof top. Always threw shingles down never carried them up.

twill59 Said: Heres a question Id like to pose to you Lefty. As this might address the divide here:

The divide is you are trying to fit your business into what I am saying and you can not. I can no longer fit that model either.

All my guys have paid holidays, paid vacation, health insurance, retirement which I match 3%, steady year round work - no layoffs, and training.

So I know how to build both business models.

The shingles cost $100.

In my opinion.....

Everyone's so caught-up/"tolerant" of this whole pseudo-subcontracting thing.

Imagine, (if you will), if a contractor could not "subcontract" his own specialty trade?

The very notion of it, is simply a tactic to undermine/escape paying appropriate labor burdens.

PLAIN & SIMPLE!

WHY THE H-E- dbl hockey sticks, do you think the "pay" is just about at direct labor rates?

We all know a guy, ("business), cannot operate on the prices somewhat industry-set currently.

In states w/o licensing this is the status quo, (that is FACT - not opinion)

How much is a three year warranty worth from a migrating sub crew? They might as well make it 20 years and really impress the customer.

B) :(

wywoody Said: How much is a three year warranty worth from a migrating sub crew? They might as well make it 20 years and really impress the customer.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

These marketing companies "build their business" not through workmanship but door knockers. They call the kids "salesmen" or sales ladies. None having a clue as to what they are selling to the customer.

They are knocking on the door about getting some insurance money. THAT they do know :side: