SPF Industry Getting Saturated?

Aaron Said:

JET Said: As an insulation product I would endorse its use. As a roofing product........forget it.

JET

I am willing to listen to your reasoning. Can you cite specific valid reasons as to why, other than that you know nothing about any of it?

Sorry son, I just don't have the time or obligation to educate you about this stuff. If you don't know its limitations you shouldn't be selling it. You'll get your day in court to learn all of this, believe me.

JET

Yep, that's what I pretty much expected from you, JET. Nothing.

I suspect that you simply cannot identify the cause of failures, and are probably not inclined to admit it. That's ok, I understand.

I also know that to assume I don't know the limitations of SPF is self-serving and completely ignorant of you.

You "suspect"? Isn't that the same thing as "assume"? Obviously you don't know a thing about this stuff but I promise you will when one of your customers takes you to court (after his roof is ruined beyond repair) and your insurance carrier (if you even have one) bails on you. Just keep sellin' son...........your day is coming. I promise I won't say "I told 'ya so"......... :P :P

See, this is when we come apart here and people get pissy then the SHTFan. We all have likes and dislikes about products but if you so vehemently insist that a certain system/product is shit then you could at least outline why, no? Especially if/when a proponent of said system enquires so.

Jed Said: See, this is when we come apart here and people get pissy then the SHTFan. We all have likes and dislikes about products but if you so vehemently insist that a certain system/product is shit then you could at least outline why, no? Especially if/when a proponent of said system enquires so.

You're absolutely right Jed........I apologize for causing a little rift here about this stuff. My thoughts and reasons for not caring for this product are well documented over the many years I've been posting here. For one example you just have to look at my back and forth with old Tom Hays. He got so upset he gave up the stuff and started shooting bedliners instead :ohmy: :ohmy:

JET

JET Said:

Jed Said: See, this is when we come apart here and people get pissy then the SHTFan. We all have likes and dislikes about products but if you so vehemently insist that a certain system/product is shit then you could at least outline why, no? Especially if/when a proponent of said system enquires so.

Youre absolutely right Jed........I apologize for causing a little rift here about this stuff. My thoughts and reasons for not caring for this product are well documented over the many years Ive been posting here. For one example you just have to look at my back and forth with old Tom Hays. He got so upset he gave up the stuff and started shooting bedliners instead :ohmy: :ohmy:

JET

Now Jet, as per usual you have zero idea on what you write.

I never have shot a bedliner in my life but did expand my products to include Polyurea. The only thing I ever got sick of was a guy who thinks he hits the big time doing a Double Wide Trailer roof.

I honestly believe I could take every roof you applied in 5 years and they would not fit on one of my 20 plus year old Spray Foam Jobs. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Roofguy Said: I tried to think of a way to start this thread in a way that doesnt appear self-serving. That doesnt seem possible so Ill just launch into it and take my lumps.

There have been contractors who sold their emulsion rig to get into SPF, and conversely weve had 4 contractors in the last year who were SPF contractors who decided to buy an emulsion rig. That tells me that something is in play that is more than meets the eye. Im trying to understand that.

One new customer is a Phoenix SPFr who bought an emulsion rig and came to Texas because there are so many foamers in Pheonix now that theyre doing SPF over gravel BUR for around $200/SQR. Theyre killing each other. Heard the same thing from a West Coast roofing contractor, that foamers are tripping over each other out there.

More anecdotal reasoning is that in our 200k population town of Lubbock, there are at least 15 foamers now. Thats 1 foam rig for every 13,333 people. Granted, not all of them do just roofs, but all of them but 1 does roofs.

Are they over-selling foam rigs? Saturating the industry can only drive down profits for contractors. The double-dip part of that is that when SPF contractors go belly up, their $50,000 rig gets sold by the bank for $20,000 and now a new guy is ready to bid roofs even cheaper.

This isnt unique to SPF rigs, I readily admit that. As this economy breaks roofers, more and more of our used rigs came on the market and created a secondary market for used rigs. Suddenly there are contractors out there who paid $10,000 for a rig rather than $30,000, have no training, yet are now fully equipped to become a nuisance low baller.

Ya cant blame SPF rig manufacturers selling as many rigs as they can, thats the business theyre in. There has to be a fallout somewhere down the line.

Welp Tim, do you stand by this? Are you tripping over everyone for $200.00 a square?

Is the difference the guy pulling or not pulling the trigger?

I like foam, almost as much as I like chopped glass emulsion. We make a lot more money doing chopped glass - a LOT more. Quicker and more. My son and I were talking about this just today. We can make more profit with chopped glass at $175/SQR than we can with SPF at $300. By a wide margin.

In fairness to SPF though, we have a built-in advantage when selling chopped glass because nobody around the Midwest has our credentials with the system. With foam, we are relative noobs.

I like both systems, a lot. They serve such different markets that it's good to offer both. That said, they also compliment each other. Next week we start an 850 SQR chop job in Halton City that will get about 25 SQR of SPF to eliminate ponding areas before we chop.