Right size crew?

We have seven on crew, seems to be best number for quality, speed, at the same time. Used to be me and one helper., not a problem back then, as we din't do the volume of work we do now. Tried four, tried five, if anyone missed a day, we fell behind, a little, but a little here and there adds up.Also helps us beat a lot of incoming afternoon thunderstorms, and also hi-heat and humidity, as a lot of times we start on job by 6:15 or so a.m. , and have the job done by lunchtime or a little after. If we have job done in six hours or so, I still pay eight, as I am further ahead the next day. Just wondered how you are set up, and why you would agree with seven, or disagree.>>>

I have tried different amount of guys also. I agree seven even guys is about the best number for an average to semi cut up roof. Overall seven guys who get in the groove and become auotmatic at attacking a job can be super efficeint and detailed oriented without breaking a sweat.>>>

Not picking a fight or anything, but I don't consider things running efficiently unless everybody does break a sweat. At least that's how I've always viewed it. If we don't break a sweat there's no way for us to stay healthy. No pain/no gain.>>>

When I was a laborer/dump driver we had a foreman and the #2 man. It really did not matter what roof we did or pitch...we either had it tore off and shingled in one day or tore off one day and shingle the next. for several months we averaged 4 roofs completed a week. How was this done? Great shinglers and a "superman" for a laborer. If the shinglers had to pack trash...I was fired. If the foreman had to fetch one shingle...I was fired. Once the tear off and felt was completed, the shinglers left me to clean up the ground (that was punishment as I did not finish with them). Once the last shingle was installed, the shinglers packed up and went home...and left me to clean up the scrapes (that was punishment as I did not finish with them).

Looking back after all these years, I could not find another crew that could match the production level that we accomplished with only three guys !!!

Oh! In my 6 months working for them, I can only recall 4 times they left me hanging. I burned a lot of sweat, lost a lot of wieght and remember a great experience!>>>

Vaa, We do a lot of between 18 to 34 square tear off and replace, shingle roofs. we are the laborers , carpenters, ROOFERS, and clean-up crew. Half the time jod is two or more layers existing, all the time, at least some sheathing replacement, or all new sheathing. Half our jobs steep , , cut up, etc. Always some porches, or bay windows, or carport, garage, etc. besides the main roof., so seven works good for us, always something for everyone to do. We did a 43 square , two layer tear off the other day, off , dried in , shingled , ridge vent, clean-up and gone, in nine hours., we like to do at least a roof, complete a day, as we always have a full schedule, and like I said , we start early, and if it's going to 92 degrees, with 100% humidity, we normally can be done and gone before the afternoon heat really builds, and I will pay eight hours for anyhing over six hours, so no one loses. By the way , tons of sweat.>>>

To warrant a Seven man crew I'd be looking at nothing less than four or five hundred sq, or separate buildings on the same site. We just finished a 360 sq of flat work combined with a couple hundred sq of shingle rip an' roof using a crew of six......most days........ Robert passed us by on the highway if I remember right. And yeah what egg said regarding sweat.....if you need to piss then you ain't working hard enough.>>>

Totally depends on job ..... Of course you guys are talking shingles here ....

Most "hot jobs" which are rarer today than ever worked best with 6 men .... patch crews 2-3 men and EPDM / TPO and Torch-On works good with 4 guys ..... but then again it depends and job .... We recently complete a flat / flashing restoration job with cold products and only used 2 guys as we thought that was the most efficient crew for the job / size and it worked well and we made a nice profit on the project ....

To make a blanket statement that 7 men is ideal would not be my idea ....

As for working 6 and paying 8 .... i'm all about production and efficiency and rewarding those for their efforts - but you have to be careful and watchful - every day habit NO - but I'm not against and in fact reward our crews from time to time ....

B)>>>

We use a fairly complex algorithm to determine crew size. Over the years, we tracked productivity on different types of roofs under various conditions. So, we guess (fairly accurately) how fatigue will effect the productive of a man based on factors such as pitch, elevation, heat and humidity. With this information, we prepare our estimate and then assemble the crew to reflect the needs of each project. It sounds more complicated then it actually is. It's set up in an Excel spreadsheet and I enter the size of the job, and the spreadsheet will calculate the man hours needed to complete the job and then the estimator will enter the crew size and the program will determine the number of days and labor cost to complete the project. For example, during the summer (here in South Florida) we realistically estimate that an average laborer can tear off, repair the decking and dry in 3.5 Sqr. of Tile roof in a workday (regardless of weather we work 5 hours or 8 hours per day). That number is adjusted up to about 5.5 Sqr. per day in the spring and fall and goes to 6.5 Sqr. per day in the winter.>>>

Roof Doctors USA Said: We use a fairly complex algorithm to determine crew size. Over the years, we tracked productivity on different types of roofs under various conditions. So, we guess (fairly accurately) how fatigue will effect the productive of a man based on factors such as pitch, elevation, heat and humidity. With this information, we prepare our estimate and then assemble the crew to reflect the needs of each project. It sounds more complicated then it actually is. Its set up in an Excel spreadsheet and I enter the size of the job, and the spreadsheet will calculate the man hours needed to complete the job and then the estimator will enter the crew size and the program will determine the number of days and labor cost to complete the project. For example, during the summer (here in South Florida) we realistically estimate that an average laborer can tear off, repair the decking and dry in 3.5 Sqr. of Tile roof in a workday (regardless of weather we work 5 hours or 8 hours per day). That number is adjusted up to about 5.5 Sqr. per day in the spring and fall and goes to 6.5 Sqr. per day in the winter.

That's taking it up or notch or two, congrats.>>>

Mike M. Said: Vaa, " .....so seven works good for us, always something for everyone to do. We did a 43 square , two layer tear off the other day, off , dried in , shingled , ridge vent, clean-up and gone, in nine hours., we like to do at least a roof, complete a day, as we always have a full schedule............."

63 m/ hrs? A little less than 1.5 m/ hrs. per sq>>>

Too big or inexperienced of a crew spells disaster for tile. The only time more is when losding tile or tearing off. Other than that, 2 or 3 is all you want.>>>

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: I wonder how much extra or less profit here might be on a job where you have seven guys? Sure the big plus would be getting the roofs done quicker.

We used to pay job and knock too ( finish the job and knock off for the day) which gives guys an incentive to get on with it, but found that quality fell, it got so they were cutting corners and doing sloppy work. That was 13 years ago with 3 fully qualified tradesmen and an Apprentice working together doing BUR tearoff and back with 2 layer torchon.

To be honest we found production was higher as well as profit if we kept the crews to just two people, especially if they had been working together for a few years, split them up and do two jobs at once seemed to work for us better.

I feel more comfortable now with just myself and one or two helpers, and no call backs.

Depends on job and duties .... but in theory you make more money working two jobs with 3 people on each than workin gone job with 6 roofers - but it totally depends on factors including but limited to weather - job type (coatings and repairs and great 2-3 man crew size whereas a 40 square flat tear and two layer insul - 1st mech. attached and second set in hot and hotted base - works best with 6 man crew two days then go to 3 or 4 guys to layup with modified) ......

also depends on travel to job and how many jobs you have running in the area and as mentioned the weather - oh the weather ....

:cheer:>>>

Job chemistry is very important; more important than crew size. Extra laborers from time to time can keep the aces from wearing out early in the week. You don't want the key people getting run down. You want the laborers to have and keep their own self-respect and pride. Robby was weaned the way I was. There's not much difference, or shouldn't be, between a roofer and a sled dog. We bad. Of course, sometimes it helps to take a few extra minutes at break time to discuss astrophysics. Seriously. (to the best of our abilities of course)>>>

Egg, is that roofers or sled dogs that you discuss astrophysics with? Most of the roofers I know don't get beyond ass-ho physics.>>>

:laugh:>>>

In my area home owners are led to believe that quarter size hail damage on roofs need to be replaced ASAP and those roofs need to be done in a day with a large crew of immigrants of course. By the time the smart home owners want new roofs they've seen almost every 30-50sq roof around them done in a day.

Up until three years ago did most roofs with just one or two grunts even tear offs. Starting in mid 06 stopped doing new roofs and started doing insurance work. For the second half of 06 ran with 4-6 on most jobs but as many as 8-9 on large jobs. In 07 hired my father on full time which was the best decision possible. With 38 years roofing experiance he's my number one go to guy with complicated situations. Since his heart attack two months ago he's getting back to were he was before it which was the hardest working, best quality, and fastest on the crew, 53 years old. On half the jobs my younger brother works for me. He's got his own roofing company so you only have to tell him the detailed job specs. Last year had my Uncle on most jobs, he's been roofing for about 25 years. Had part time help with my two cousins with a combined 75 years of roofing experiance. My other Uncle works a little for me too with about 30 years experiance.

It would be safe to say I don't have to search very long to find a large crew of highly trained roofing pro's.

Last year we couldn't keep up with the demand from all the storm work so we ran with a crew averaging 6-9. I like one laborer per installer and they stay dedicated to that person from start to finish, sort of a gopher. When there were days that would allow me to work with the crew would take the best laborer for me!

Last year did a lot of roofs with the one crew and the best week we did 5 tear offs in 6 days, one was 55 squares, the rest were 30-40 squares. As far as the best time start to finish would have been when 8 of us showed up at a 25sq house at 4 pm as we'd just finished one prior to that. By 8 pm we were done. The house was one story, one layer, 4/12 two sides. No skylights or chimneys. It was stripped and dried in 2.5 hours and with four installers put down the 25 squares in about an hour in a half.

This year I've downsized a little and have worked on about half the roofs from start to finish. Now the crew averages 5-7.

The home owners always have good things to say about my crew and really like it when they see the owner up there.

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