Repair ?

That's the only part of the equation I'm fairly certain of. LOL

Looks like a leak to me instead of condensation but I'm not accustomed to northern climates. You have a large amount of water coming out of that valley during the heavy down pours and the mold spot is right under that. It probably only leaks just a little during only the hardest rains. It doesn't take much to create a leak with that amount of water running over one area. The water will reach places it normally doesn't. If the water reaches just one nail head you got a leak. You might not see it dripping from inside the garage but if you were up in the attic space during a hard rain you would probably see it drip down onto the sheet rock. Get up there with a nail bar and see if you find any rusted out nail heads. If they placed even one nail too close to one of the key way slots it would be easy for that large stream of water to reach it. If that's what is going on it's gonna get worse because the water eats away at the nail stem a little more each time until ultimately it creates a nice route into your garage.

The flashing where the barge rafter meets the roof should have extended further in the direction of the valley.

The end of the valley would be my first look. The way it ends does not look right. That course of shingles comes in a little high. There needs to be something done to extend that valley past the drip edge and fascia. There is probably a little hole right at the end of the fascia that when water wicks back at the end of the valley it comes in. If the shingle course fell out 1" lower they may have never been a problem.

There is also a nail pop about 2' to the left of the leak. This probably showed up just recently and is not a part of the problem just yet.

Could not see the rest of the valley. The actual entrance of the water into the roof system may be above the actual entrance at the place I offered above. Could also be the ridge cap. A look at the inside of the roof deck will help track the flow of water. Start with the obvious.

Lefty and Chuck called it. IMO The wall flashing drip edge detail is another contender or part of the combination. This a common problem here Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Egg: " And yet, still, I have a profound respect for Chuck and any other craftsman who realigns a business to make them a staple. I haven't done that yet, but there could come a time when I might. I could see doing that. At that point I would take the position that all I am selling is my time and my time has to be paid for. You figure your time and material, including driving time, and make damned sure there is also something in there to feed the company. "

Egg, I really appreciate the comment that you made. As a roofer there are no trophies or awards except such kind words from clients, friends, etc.

The way you described it is exactly how I bid except it's time and experience instead of just time.( that may be what you meant anyways ) In my view, a specialist deserves to be compensated as such irregardless if it's a doctor, lawyer, Roofer or any thing else.

As a specialist and a professional, I don't do "questionable" repairs. ( Sorry Ole Jack but I don't even purchase roof tar and that's "NO BULL". ) :laugh: I bid and perform the work in the way I believe it should have been done during the installation thus the problem they are having would never even have occurred.

In residential re-roofing it just got too competitive for me. Most home owners just think everyone is gonna do pretty much the same thing ( even though that's far from the truth ) so it comes down to price. But after all that has transpired and the water starts pouring in to their largest investment it's quite a different story. Now a specialist is in fact very much desired and preferred. Price is near the bottom of the list, partly because we're not talking about near as much expense as a new roof and partly because they've already experienced cheap and now want to be sure it's done right.

After seeing your pictures it most likely is coming from the valley base - barge board tail area.

The roof framers will often just nail the angle cut edge of the plywood sheeting from the dormer through the plywood on the main roof without any solid blocking underneath. They will nail down to the point at the base of the valley as well as into the tail of the barge board sometimes.

When the roofer shows up he has a choice of pulling the nails out in this area and feeding the underlay and whole uncut shingles up under the valley base or leaving the nails in and cutting and notching the shingles to fit as best as possible in this area. I would guess that the latter choice was made and there is a spot that is lacking both underlay and shingle close to the tip of the barge board and base of the valley.

Water is probably getting in during wind driven rains or snow melt on the roof.

I would look in the attic first to observe what nail patterns are in this area as in regards to the framing process. This may give you some insight into the cause of the leak and what to expect if you start disassembly of this area from above.

I won't even look at it again until the experts converge upon the abode.

That place is liable to blow up.

I guess this is why I run that little piece of flashing past the valley, like they did on the left side. Put it in tight to the framing too. With a rake trim board over it, a leak is inconcievable...

But, it happened

Also overhang the rake sufficiently since the field shingle coursing did not work out. Put it in crooked if need be, but run it across the valley bottom.

I had a long reply wrote, lost it. Picture is worth a 1,000 words. Should never of ever leaked. Bad detail work

twill59 Said: Also overhang the rake sufficiently since the field shingle coursing did not work out. Put it in crooked if need be, but run it across the valley bottom.

I would not run that course crooked. I take about 18" of shingle and run it across the valley from 1 plane to the other. Just like the valley metal would run, then trim it on the left side to run the water out past the face board. This way the high course looks semetrical.

I did not mean a crooked course Lefty. I was referring to the 1st shingle running up the rake.

Sorry for that. Crooked. A little cocked. Or simply bury it in there but leave it a little long to shed the water out.

I run my normal rake overhang, but cut that 1st shingle going up the rake an extra 1" or so wide. And I start it low so it goes through the valley

We've been without power for awhile here. Just got it back. California is finally getting a little rain. We patted the freezer this morning and asked it to hang in there, went out for breakfast, drove around awhile, hydroplaned our way out to the coast and watched the heavy seas pounding the cliffs. Hydraulics everywhere on the roads, water pouring in from all kinds of places on the side where you almost never see it. It's been so long since it was an issue that all the usual guys who put on slickers and go out to clear the ditches and culverts and drains were caught looking. Watching water move is always fascinating to me. It's a live thing. We all know this because we work with it all the time but most people don't. They think it's like God dumping a lot of ball bearings down a slope or into a bucket. Drops of water.

Gotta share this tiny piece of my family narrative I've been working on for several years now during the winters:

On an inclined plane, a steel ball released at the top will make a bee-line straight downhill. Water does not do this. Forty years of working with water has shown me that it conforms to several hidden biases and predilections that a steel ball neither recognizes nor has any aptitude for. It tends to stick to itself. When given the opportunity, it will also stick to anything else it touches. It's as if it believes it owns whatever it touches and is reluctant to let go. This is true. It believes that. Sometimes, rather than letting go and taking the easy way, it climbs up what it's touching and clings for dear life. Although it is also a solvent, it is cohesive. This sometimes makes it seem like a liquid paradox, counter-intuitive, and difficult. When it finally yields to gravity it runs with a peculiar sweeping, wobbly motion, as if trying to grab something on its way downhill or for the sheer delight of terrestrial soaring. It will often pass completely over or around a hole rather than drop in and when given its freedom, it never chooses to run straight to anywhere. People are like that. Communities are like that.

It would be a mistake to think that the pioneers pouring through the Cumberland Gap and west from Pennsylvania would bank up against another edict from an English king or another natural barrier and wait there respectfully for an opening to appear.

Like water, they pooled and clung and poured through every available orifice, spreading out in a thousand streams and rivulets on their way to better land, yielding to the gravitational force of opportunity.

A little melodramatic, I know, but we have it good in this business. We get to work with real stuff and get paid while we're doing it. Most artists can work for many many hours, even days, at a highly skilled level and after they're done paying off the gallery's cut they're lucky to make as much for their work as we do on a single small repair job.

One thing I never do is go out on a leak call on one of my jobs thinking, "Not my fault...I didn't do it." Probably I didn't, but maybe I did. What makes us good at this is we try to think like water and we often learn something new when we least expect it. Even after all these years it's still fun.

very melodramatic :laugh: (not laughing at you egg, just laughing)

The fact is, we could all speculate for ever but until someone comes to your house and inspects the problem in person no one really knows 100% for sure the "exact" cause of the leak and possibly not even then. The good news is you don't have to know "exactly" in order to fix it. If it's a tricky problem and the person that shows up is not highly experienced there is a good chance of a misdiagnosis, improper scope of work and the leak continuing or even being moved over somewhat.

Whether or not the leak spot on your garage ceiling is directly below the bottom of the valley, slightly above it or just below it is of extreme importance in giving a proper diagnosis because there are 3 common leak areas involved with this particular leak. A valley, a tie in at the bottom of a valley and a large amount of water emptying out of a valley.

If someone can "know" 100% the cause, then the minimum amount of work can be done to repair it without much concern of the leak continuing. If not then all 3 possibilities should be covered in the scope of work to ensure the leak does not reoccur because there's no profit in going back on jobs for warranty issues.

So with all that said, what should be done to nail this sucker on the first attempt? First off, just like a mechanic when you take your car to the shop for repairs, I want to hear the history behind it all. This can sometimes provide vital clues that will help me identify the problem. Secondly, I want to see the underside of the decking from inside the attic if possible and not too difficult to reach. If that isn't feasible, I would open the garage door and take a measurement from the gutter to the leak spot and then get on the roof and do the same. This should put me right on top of the leak area or "very" close by. The next thing would be to use a nail bar to unstick the shingles and look for rusty nail heads. Why is that necessary? Because the nail heads are only rusted at and below the leak, not above it. This can show me where the leak begins.

If your having a bad hair day or something and don't want to do all that or just can't figure out the exact cause, then what would be the solution? In your case, I would redo the valley, including tearing out a few shingles below the valley, install storm guard below and in the valley, correct the flashing extending it beyond the valley as some others have suggested and seal all the nail heads in the general area just below the valley where the large stream of water runs.

Is all that necessary to repair the leak? Maybe and maybe not. It mostly depends on whether or not I can "know" the "exact" cause of the problem. The point is as a roof repair specialist it's my job to fix the leak in a professional way, ensure it will not reoccur and ensure that I make a fair profit in the process without having to come back out every time a hard rain comes along, driving both me and the client insane.