(OT) Maybe sort of a kinda

There is simply too much governing going on, on both sides. We have strayed far away from our Founders' vision of limited federal government.

Roofguy Said: There is simply too much governing going on, on both sides. We have strayed far away from our Founders vision of limited federal government.

I totally, 100% agree. They have their noses into everything. Why the "libs" and "conservatives" can't get behind that???...Divide and conquer is working quite well.

The government solution is not to strengthen MY rights....but to take away from YOURS. And vice versa. And that is what must be recognized and rejected.

My simple solution is the same as it has been for years: A) Eliminate welfare ( except for the truly handicapped) and Corporate subsidies. B) Reduce military spending by 1/3 and therefore federal spending by 1/3.

Money is power in this country

Simple.

Money is power all right and the bankers have the ability to create it out of thin air and "lend" it to us at interest. They can thus buy anything that they want for nothing, and we are stupid enough to believe them. Will you take a check? Sh-t!

As for the morality of abortion. It is not. To answer egg on this issue. Society can be good. It can even survive people doing immoral things. That established a good society cannot and will not survive if it says immoral things are moral. Fact. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Dear Egg, I'm sorry your issues raised were for the better/worst part ignored. I read your post twice and appreciated the concern as others did not. The moral issue is for the individual to bear and I would never expect any man to understand. I am not arguing a point with anyone, I just wanted to thank you Egg for your thought.

As for the political issues, I'll take the guess work out of it...I do not like Trump, amazed that Pence is along for the ride and so disappointed in Paul Ryan. There are so many titles attached to politics these days right, left, inbetween, liberal, upsidedown & backwards. I'm in the category of thinking for myself.

So gentlemen, I say hello to you all, all the names quite familiar, glad to hear/read that much is the same as we all get older and hopefully wiser. PC

People posture, postulate, propagate, and promulgate. They get on internet forums and espouse ideas and theories about how the world should work, but they are mostly talking to themselves. Reminding themselves who they are and what they stand for. Generally, they are the only ones listening intently to themselves, because while they are on a fence crowing about this and that, the other guy is also on a fence crowing about this and that. Too busy listening to their own sermon to pay that much attention to the other guy's sermon.

I'm a Libertarian - you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. Stay out of my business! You don't like guns, great, don't buy any. Try to take mine, I'll shoot you for your efforts. Don't like Trump, great, don't like him then. I didn't like Obama either, but I tolerated him for 8 miserable years. And you will tolerate Trump for as long as his term(s) last. Me and people like me will give you no choice in the matter.

Right on Tim

Some other folks, foolishly cling to the Nirvana of Socialism. These Deluded People actually like the Interstate Highway System. Or visit the National Parks. Or ride their quads and hunt and fish on Public land. PUBLIC LAND.....what an outrage!!!I would suspect that if they were carefully watched, they could be glimpsed going into a library. Of course they would expect clean water from their faucets too. I tell you, this socialism is going to be the death of this country yet! Just having clean water from an indoor tap makes almost every American richer than a huge majority of the rest of the world.so where is this experiment in socialism going to end?

Whats next?food and bullets for our soldiers? Which communist leader in this country ever came up with that friggin GI Bill anyway?!?!? And... Ranchers grazing their livestock for 10 cents on the dollar? Or less?!?!? CONSERVATIVE SOCIALIST Ranchers no less! What's this country coming to.

I am damn FED UP and TIRED of driving my brand new shiny truck on fantastic roads! I want potholes dammit! POTHOLES . Do you hear me MR. TRUMP?!?!?? And I want them now now! Drain that swamp and leave my road alone!! And do it For FREE.because I aint no payin no taxes for any of that InFerStuk.Oh you know what I mean!!! ROADS!!!!!

Just let me keep my one acre and my house and leave me alone! Ill live off the garden and my herd of cattle damn it! And when I really need some cash..Ill sell one of them cars parked in the front yard. They're antiques ya know! But I AINT paying no taxes Ãnd don't be building no bridge over the ditch over yonder except, hmmmm, I need a bridge so someone can come and buy one of my antique cars

AHA! I know......Tax my neighbor!!!

Patty Cakes Said: Dear Egg, Im sorry your issues raised were for the better/worst part ignored. I read your post twice and appreciated the concern as others did not. The moral issue is for the individual to bear and I would never expect any man to understand. I am not arguing a point with anyone, I just wanted to thank you Egg for your thought.

As for the political issues, Ill take the guess work out of it...I do not like Trump, amazed that Pence is along for the ride and so disappointed in Paul Ryan. There are so many titles attached to politics these days right, left, inbetween, liberal, upsidedown & backwards. Im in the category of thinking for myself.

So gentlemen, I say hello to you all, all the names quite familiar, glad to hear/read that much is the same as we all get older and hopefully wiser. PC

A common human characteristic is to project our own flaws (moral) and deficiencies (weakness, imperfections) onto others. In the power game, it is a must have skill

Taxes & good roads.

We pay thru the nose for this with every gallon of gas we buy. Why then do I also get a bill in the mail for driving on a tollway in Dallas that paid for itself 15 years ago? Easy, because politicians spend that money on other pet projects and the sheeple are dumb enough to pay it because they don't grasp that the money they're paying isn't to fix potholes on the road, but build an elaborate $20 million high school football stadium named after a city councilman.

"... a good society cannot and will not survive if it says immoral things are moral. Fact. "

I like that Chuck and I couldn't agree with you more. The problem for me gets difficult when people presume to tell me what is and isn't moral. Definitions of morality have been shown to be quite variable and quite slippery. At one time slavery and lynching were deemed moral. In the first three hundred years AD there was quite a furor of disagreement over the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost. It was agreed that God was God, of course, and that Jesus was God, as immortal son, and the Holy Spirit was also God. For some there had to be a distinction between God the Father and God the Son because it would be immoral for God to hang himself on the cross. God doesn't die in any way shape or form and suicide is immoral. Are all forms of "suicide" immoral?

God does not die, therefore that part of us which does is not the part made in God's image. A set of blueprints is not a house. A zygote is a set of blueprints, not a person. Fact. What makes a person a person? A brain-dead body on total life support was once a person. A corpse was once a person. What makes a person a person, and not a monster, is love and respect. Without those two the whole discussion is moot, dog-eat-dog, and utterly worthless.

What I noticed as a kid is that the minute grownups take a long hard look at love and respect, the whole discussion broadens. Sometimes there are tough moral decisions that have to be made. We have our special place, but left unchecked, the human race will choke the life out of a planet which taken as a whole is made much much more like to God's image than are we alone. Birth control on a global scale is imperative. If we don't want to become like rats, lemmings, locusts, or the bubonic plague, we need to practice some animal husbandry on ourselves. Fire next time, remember? If we want human life to be deemed sacred, let's make sure we take care of the blessing that were bestowed on us.

Birth control on a global scale is imperative. If we don't want to become like rats, lemmings, locusts, or the bubonic plague, we need to practice some animal husbandry on ourselves.

Birth control and abortion are not always the same thing. Those societies who have bred like "rats" are paying the price for it. Typically they are uneducated and lazy people who can't be bothered with thoughts of tomorrow. Ethiopia, and inner-Chicago.

They are examples of people who should be "fixed" for the common good of man, not held out as a defense of abortion.

"What I noticed as a kid is that the minute grownups take a long hard look at love and respect, the whole discussion broadens"

That is a valid point egg. Love and respect have a solid foundation in the idea of ...right or wrong. There are rules for right and wrong. Those rules bring us to the concept of a rational, moral , loving and caring society. The Abortion issue can be summed up in that question, is it Right? or Wrong?

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Everyone gets to decide for themselves about abortion. At some point at the end of your life you'll get the opportunity to explain your position. If you think you can make that sell, great. I'm not taking the chance.

Twill, I'm a bit uncertain about your comment below in respose to my post...

...A common human characteristic is to project our own flaws (moral) and deficiencies (weakness, imperfections) onto others. In the power game, it is a must have skill

You got all of that out of that statement? I would not have taken it personally but you highlighted my statement which was quite general and not personal.

Roofguy, you had me going with your last statement until the ending of you not taking a chance. You are not taking the chance. On another above post you complained of "no thoughts of tomorrow"...it is exactly their "thoughts of tomorrow" which "lasts a lifetime" that comes into the decision. I can guarantee that there are women you know have followed this path and you will never know about it. As for getting fixed, sounds real easy and logical, totally agree until you need your husbands OK.

Do men need their wives OK to get a vasectomy? I honestly don't know. Maybe someone here does. PC