(OT) Maybe sort of a kinda
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Roofguy
Alba Said:Maybe you missed all the flag-draped coffins coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan about C-117 transports. They sacrificed plenty, or were at risk to.This coming from a guy who keeps his AR-15 ready to fight them if feels like the government is infringing his freedom. Im trying to understand :I hate the government but I love the military which is run by the government.
You should get up to speed. The Second Amendment is intended, mostly, as a deterrent. Just like my AR. Secondly, get up to speed on Oath Keepers. Most veterans would never take up arms against citizens.
One of our Founders said it best: when government fears citizens you have freedom, when citizens fear government you have tyranny. Think about it, it's not just a trite phrase.
To think I am anti-military is to have not been paying attention.
Roofguy
There is an old Latin phrase that sums up the concept that you and other liberals have trouble grasping: Si vis pacem, para bellum. It means: If you want peace, prepare for war.
Alba
Roofguy Said: There is an old Latin phrase that sums up the concept that you and other liberals have trouble grasping: Si vis pacem, para bellum. It means: If you want peace, prepare for war.yeah but the excessive military spending was one of the factors that brought about the fall of the roman empire.As Dwight Eisenhower once put it :Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.[1][5]
twill59
I don't think there will be another Eisenhower.
Roofguy
If you think a strong military is expensive, try a weak one.
Roofguy
Don't get me wrong, I'm a small government guy. A Libertarian. But like I tell me son a lot: Lets try to run to 1st before we try for 3rd base.
The bigger threat is to 2A.
Alba
Eisenhower warned about the "military-industrial complex" which while has pitied the working folks against each other is quietly looting the treasury under the mask of "patriotism".. http://www.onthecommons.org/magazine/pentagon-budget-corruption-disguised-as-patriotism#sthash.qywITVu3.dpbs
twill59
Look at pre ww2 Japan ....or post 2001 USA.... Figure it out
Roofguy
Alba, they are 2 very different issues. I don't disagree that wars have frequently been fought because there is profit for those powerful people/entities who equip us to fight them.
And as impractical as it sounds for a few million rednecks armed with Glocks and AR-15's to take on a nuclear-equipped military, that is the whole premise of 2A, to have the government fear revolt by an armed-citizenry. It is pretty much principle at this point, and less practical, but having a "well armed militia" is critical to freedom.
All that said, as unlikely as the scenario might be, there are now thousands of highly trained former military snipers and other operators who would oppose any government attempts to disarm citizens. Those on the other side have to know that they'd be picked off one-by-one from different zip codes.
Roofguy
Sun Tzu said it better than I could.
Alba
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[i]And as impractical as it sounds for a few million rednecks armed with Glocks and AR-15s to take on a nuclear-equipped military, that is the whole premise of 2A, to have the government fear revolt by an armed-citizenry. It is pretty much principle at this point, and less practical, but having a well armed militia is critical to freedom.
All that said, as unlikely as the scenario might be, there are now thousands of highly trained former military snipers and other operators who would oppose any government attempts to disarm citizens. Those on the other side have to know that theyd be picked off one-by-one from different zip codes. There have been well armed populations who have taken on the US army before, like in Iraq, Afghanistan , Vietnam and it hasn't worked out quite as well or as easily as you make it out to be for them.But I guess the rednecks are smarter and better.Could you explain the paradox of being a constitution aficionado and voting for a president who routinely says , preaches and endorses unconstitutional actions , i.e police brutality like he did the other day? Anyway we started this discussion about "socialism" and "progressive" which are dirty words especially in republican states.medicare and social security are socialist things .before medicare was passed in 1964 , 75% of americans over the age of 65 didn't have health insurance.I live in a state where the elderly vote heavily republican .but if you take medicare and social security away from them , those armed rednecks that you talk about I bet you will march on Washington dc.
Roofguy
Alba, you preferred Hillary? Simple question, lets get passed that much first shall we?
Secondly, your analogy wasn't very good. 40 million armed rednecks spread across 48 states is gonna be a little harder to attack than a conclave of ISIS fighters in a cave.
Social Security was paid into by citizens, they deserve a return. Most would prefer it not be taken to begin with.
Police brutality? You're delusional! He made a funny joke about not covering the heads of criminals as they put in a police car. Calm down.
Alba
Roofguy Said: Alba, you preferred Hillary? Simple question, lets get passed that much first shall we?Secondly, your analogy wasnt very good. 40 million armed rednecks spread across 48 states is gonna be a little harder to attack than a conclave of ISIS fighters in a cave.
Social Security was paid into by citizens, they deserve a return. Most would prefer it not be taken to begin with.
Police brutality? Youre delusional! He made a funny joke about not covering the heads of criminals as they put in a police car. Calm down.
Even though I would have preferred for the democrats to have picked a fresh face ,I preferred Hillary over Trump . His joke wasn't so funny since many police chiefs around the country including the head of DEA quickly had to remind their cops that such actions are against the law .
Roofguy
preferred Hillary over Trump .
And this admission is why I buy guns and ammo. Our society has become intellectually lazy. The toilet needs to be flush.
Alba
Roofguy Said:preferred Hillary over Trump .. Our society has become intellectually lazy. The toilet needs to be flush.
Amen to that.I feel the same way anytime I watch the circus in the WH and wonder about the people that elected the clown in chief.
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