Lots of " Are you hiring ? " calls
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CIAK
Well Dave example is where the rubber meets the road . In reality the roofing contractor should know the pulse of his neighbor hood. Realizing that each customer is just one set of numbers away from choosing someone else. One digit or seven no matter. If you don't know your patience's ( customers ) It doesn't matter how good of a craftsmen you are , they will dial someone else digits. That is what the stormier do. They understand the locals fear and intimidation's , capitalize on it suck every once of juice they can from your neighborhood and communities. The starting place is " YOU " Spend sometime looking at your example then think about what you don't understand . Pick the brains of the stormier . They are predators and know how to capture their prey. GKRFG , twil you guys are aware of what is happening here . I'm not the enemy . I'm trying to raise awareness , and yes there are other personal benefit which drives me to put up with Loonies such as jet and visceral comments I face in the cross hairs of the snipers .>>>
twill59
Another point to make: Many homeowners have gotten "smart" (for lack of a better term) They are picking up the phone and looking for an Ins. Co. bailout when they call for a re-roof. Some come out and say it, others hem & haw about some sort of storm damage
Where are we today CIAK? I tell 'em lateley, that up to 1 year ago the Ins. Cos. were spreading money around like they were gassing their Hiummers @ $4 a gallon...... w/ most of that gas even being spilled on the ground LOL Lately I have actually, honestly and truly seen a few claims denied. WOW!
Are they tightening their belts, a wee bit? Am I reading this right? W/ no contacts and really not enough volume here to be "in the game" I am just guessing>>>
Miscreant
Here's my response. For clarity, the original post is in palin text. Your response is in italics. My counter response is in bold.
If they create an environment where their customer gets screwed after the claim is settled, they don't care......... Absolutely FALSE
Help me understand how insurance companies care about the quality of work. How does this "caring" convert into action? No inspection of the job is performed by you. I believe when you say "care", you actually mean, "I don't want the policyholder to blame us for the screw job they got".
Most of the roofs that sustained storm damage were roofs that were replaced by the storm chasers in the 2003 hail storm we had. This is an instance where the insurance industry’s ambivalence to the quality of work came back to bite them in the rear end..... Not nessecarliy ....... They ended up paying twice for something they could have paid once for....... Maybe yes , no How do you know this ??????
I know this because this because your policyholders told me. Every single person that I talked to that had a roof that needed to replaced because of wind damage was either new construction or a storm chaser job. Over nine out of ten were done by stormers.
The problem your industry faces is the porosity of information and how rapidly it is distributed.,,,,,, Can you explain what in the hell you are talking about here ????????? There are too many leaks in the levee. Before your policyholders start burning down your skyscrapers and slitting your throats you might consider turning the whole thing around.......... This is just idiot talk up to turing the thing around
I am referring to how available information is today than it was in the past. Large corporations can't keep secrets as well because of the internet. Information is being shared amongst your policyholders in a way that wasn't possible. I take the "idiot talk" comment as a compliment, as you have elevated this style of communication to an art form.
I'm sure insurance executives didn't set up the storm claims process to create bribe money for the adjustor's and I believe that most adjustor's just want to earn an honest living.... Very True.... On the other hand if ever there was a system that created moral hazard, it is this one. It demands too cozy of a relationship with adjustor's and storm chasers in an environment that is by definition rushed and confused. Add to the mix a class of adjuster whose compensation is linked to the size of the claim and you have a system that is all but guaranteed to be abused....... Some what true.. Just as the roofing industry hires illegal SOBs in fraud and self serving profit gouging. Not paying there salesman taking that money shall I go on ?????????????
I expect a higher level of debate from you CIAK. Pointing out the roofing industry faults does not give absolution to yours. I'm not saying the roofing industry is without fault. Our main trade association is deaf and dumb when it comes to insurance work. They really don't pay much attention to steep slope work and of course they have all but encouraged illegal immigration. For the most part we are talking about family run businesses that are all different. I think you are lumping stormers in with local roofers though. The storm business brought the illegal immigrants into the roofing business. Stormchasers depend on a workforce that is mobile, works cheap and won't complain about not having insurance. The fact that they often do substandard work is not a problem for a contractor that is going to move to another locale. I never saw a Mexican on a roof until the storm posse came to town. Many stayed and they have become part of the fabric of our business. The price gouging and not paying salesman comment is more appropriately directed at stormchasers and not the local family owned contractor. I think you are only a
builderr
Is it possible that the storm chasers need to raise their level of quality, and responsibility to meet ours? Just who monitors the levels of quality on these projects?...local building officials?..... The whole point of this thread is to squeeze out of those of us who have nothing better to do than sit home and watch the storm crews drive into our towns start to communicate.....nothing better to stir up a crowd than to incite the peasants....
hypothetical question.....assuming that storm chaser pricing is under pricing us....? If YOU did the volume that they do, supposedly, could you drop your prices? I equate this to the replacement window industry that recently took a dive from the 6-900/ window market to the $279.00... "and not only do I stand behind my windows..I can stand on them." The energy tax bill stirred up the interest, a few highly competitive window business executives found a way to make a lot of money from this, and drastically lower their prices at the same time. They were ahead of the storm so to speak....for those of you who are in the thick of it....wouldn't the lack of quality provided by these stormers be the only thing you'd need to make your case?...There's nothing unfair, or unscrupulous about making your potential customers aware of the deficiencies of your competition...if it's the truth...I also think, prospering in the quiet background, watching all of this Davey and Goliath stuff are companies like Home depot, and Lowes, picking up the occasional cautious buyer that wants a company that's going to be there long enough to honor their warranty......and ....unfortunately..."they never heard of you.............yet" >>>
Miscreant
You make some good points bulderr. What the insurance companies pay to replace a roof is almost always enough for me and when the Cat5 guys are in town, way more.. They generally offer the local guy half of what they will eventually pay a stormer. They will try to steer the homeowner to their contractor of choice. I don't believe this is their corporate policy, but this is how it works in the field.
I am whining/ranting/complaining here, but in my daily life I am taking responsibility for what direction it takes. It just seems to me that the insurance companies aren't being good custodians of their policyholders/shareholders money.>>>
CIAK
The whole point of this thread at this isn't conjecture .It is get off your arse and take control of your community .>>>
twill59
Who is conjecturing? The Storm Chasing scam seems to be run on inefficency, bribes and a poor use of resources. It's good to hear our we should be taking care of our communities Chuck. From someone who can't even control their own industry.
Seriously, do you guys print money? (You have not answered any questions yet, but this one is kind of easy)--- Yes or no?
The more one thinks about this goofiness, it begs the question, of how much government money does your industry get? It has to be an awesome amount to keep this train wreck on the track>>>
minnesotaroofin
Ciak - I got 2 rollovers Pulled up to them they came out with paperwork in hand i asked what color they said like that pointed to neighbors house i said ok - how about next week good to go sign here neither one of them went more than 15 minutes. You did'nt happen to put in a good word for me did ya? Do you work for American Family?>>>
CIAK
Minnesota I work for all the major Insurance company's . Can you imagine the uproar if I " CIAK " had the power to wave my hand and dispense insurance work ???????????????????? It would get ugly real fast. I congratulate you on the new work and to getting off the coach going after it. I'm not sure their aren't contractors on here that would say it insurance work I don't want to look at it because I have heard or I had a bad experience so screw it I'm not interested. I know I have read this on here and other forum's in the good times when money was flowing like a flood. As I have been trying to drive this point home . The money in the roofing industry is going to be insurance claims . Learn the game get in and keep your family and The Lovely Mrs . The resistant in understandable but it is time to get smart .>>>
johnny5
Jed Said: Johnny, If you laid the fella off why do you begrudge him collecting unemployment? If you call unemployment on what is largely a circumstantial allegation (he wont take my phone calls) and they act on it, then dont you think IF he returns to work you might be wishing he hadnt?Good point, Jed. Luckily I took no further action. He lost his phone and returned my call last night. Return to work today. The reason I let him go was he was not able to produce a drivers license. He was given a certain amount of time to get it and failed. I should have told more of the story in my post. He is a good man and we are glad to have him back legal to drive. I approve of my guys using U/I when it is due. To do this job in my part of the country it is a valuable safety net and a good thing for us in slow times. I pay all bills when obligated, play by the rules, and when I smell unecessary or overspending I try to correct the problem.>>>
minnesotaroofin
Ciak, Do you ever have to hunt down work or do you just sit around and wait for someone to call you?
How would you feel if you had to go do adjustments on say 5 properties then submit them then wait to see if you will get paid for your time. then say you get paid for 2 of them. Then you get those adjustments and someone comes along and says man i could give you a way better deal and knock 500 off the top for your deductable so then you have to tell your company hey i cannot do that cause it is illegal they say everyone else does it.
Not to mention the 5 properties if door knocking you have to hit at least 20 or better to get 1 good lead then multiply that by 5 = 100 properties to get 5 good leads.
Or we can pay $3500.00 per month for an ad in the pages 1 book out of 3 locals -- then we could run in the papers another $2000.00 a month -- Peddlers licenses -- Phone bills -- Internet etc... I have no problem marketing this way but it is hard when the chasers dont pay any of the above bills oor just enough until the storm is gone they are too - I have done it all Best chance is refferral work that is why i ask you who better to ask after all the experience you have i am still waiting for some advice other than get off my butt.
As you can see even me being here typing is considered working i may be sitting on my butt but i am triing to gain some insight from you which i figure to give up about 2-4 hours of my time i do not get paid for before i have to call it a loss.
Any type of insight would be appreciated. What is it you adjusters find in common with the chasers? Can i follow adjusters around? Can i ask them i will for free help you set ladders measure etc..? Which companies are willing to work with local contractors or preferred? how do i get in some of these contractors have only had a license 6months and they are in. Think it would be a good idea to get an adjusters license myself? If i did would insurance companies or adjusters recognize this and accept my diagram, Pictures,Estimate on the spot? If so i know 1 or 2 that will so which companies are easier? Is it illegal for independant agent to refer their customers to a contractor? And again drop some names on me or send me an email.
Some of the things that are irrevelant are door knocking - yellow page ads - paper ads - internet etc i do enough of this already -
>>>
JET
MN.......here's how it "works" in the storm chaser trade. First there is a storm, all the insurance carriers who service that storm area either send their own adjusters (salaried people) OR they sub the adjuster duties out to independent companies. You'll see many motorhomes, Red Cross tents, etc. at various "central" storm sites. Since there is limited phone service, etc. for some time many people will go directly to the insurance company's motorhomes to get claim forms and sign up for service. Many times the insurance carrier will simply tell the claimant to "get three good estimates" and send it to their central headquarters. This is just another way to run the claimant around and buy time for the carrier. There is no guarantee that any of these three estimates will be considered as an adjuster will have the final say as to how much money will be paid, if any at all.
The roofers who chase storms for a living have a short list of adjusters they "work" with ;) ;)usually by locations. The adjuster has all the power in this deal, the ball is in their court as to the amount that will be paid. The claimant has no power whatsoever, sometimes they get more than necessary but many times they get less. It's not unusual for their coverage to be cancelled after the claim is paid. We've had customers who were with a certain carrier for over 25 years with NO prior claims. One storm claim and they were dropped. This will scare a lot of homeowners into not filing a claim at all if they're in a storm prone area such as coastal Florida, etc.
Bottom line is that it's a game and not a very "fun" game as people's lives are shook up beyond their capacity to handle it many times. I feel very sorry for anyone who has to experience this type of loss. Just look at what happened to the people in Katrina's path. The insurance carriers refused to pay storm claims saying it was "flooding" that caused the loss and the customer didn't have "flood coverage". What a license to steal. These poor people are still paying mortgages on homes that aren't even there any more :blink: :blink: The insurance company is not your friend, believe me, and you can tell by my posts on this subject that I hold anyone involved in it with the upmost contempt.
JET>>>
CIAK
minnesotaroofin Said: Ciak, Do you ever have to hunt down work or do you just sit around and wait for someone to call you?As you can see even me being here typing is considered working I may be sitting on my butt but I am truing to gain some insight from you which I figure to give up about 2-4 hours of my time I do not get paid for before I have to call it a loss.How would you feel if you had to go do adjustments on say 5 properties then submit them then wait to see if you will get paid for your time. Then say you get paid for 2 of them. Then you get those adjustments and someone comes along and says man I could give you a way better deal and knock 500 off the top for your deductible so then you have to tell your company hey I cannot do that cause it is illegal they say everyone else does it.
Not to mention the 5 properties if door knocking you have to hit at least 20 or better to get 1 good lead then multiply that by 5 = 100 properties to get 5 good leads.
Or we can pay $3500.00 per month for an ad in the pages 1 book out of 3 locals -- then we could run in the papers another $2000.00 a month -- Peddlers licenses -- Phone bills -- Internet etc... I have no problem marketing this way but it is hard when the chasers don't pay any of the above bills or just enough until the storm is gone they are too - I have done it all Best chance is referral work that is why I ask you who better to ask after all the experience you have I am still waiting for some advice other than get off my butt.
Any type of insight would be appreciated. What is it you adjusters find in common with the chasers? Can I follow adjusters around? Can I ask them I will for free help you set ladders measure etc..? Which companies are willing to work with local contractors or preferred? How do I get in some of these contractors have only had a license 6months and they are in. Think it would be a good idea to get an adjusters license myself? If I did would insurance companies or adjusters recognize this and accept my diagram, Pictures,Estimate on the spot? If so I know 1 or 2 that will so which companies are easier? Is it illegal for independent agent to refer their customers to a contractor? And again drop some names on me or send me an email.
Some of the things that are ireful are door knocking - yellow page ads - paper ads - Internet etc I do enough of this already -
As it is now I don't hunt down work. When I'm out on a storm or another event typically I will get a call asking if I'm available to work etc. My common response is " I'm not available at the moment . However if you can wait I should be able to get to your project ....... Can you wait? The usual response Yes I will wait . Please call when you have a good idea when you can start. So it goes. If you get the homeowner to sign a contract and it is close to without supplements to the adjusters . It is just a matter of getting the job done. One thing to remember when dealing with the insurance company they are not the enemy . Be firm but courteous on the out come. It might be a good idea to become familiar with the estimating programs the adjusters use. The idea that the adjuster is the end all is wrong. The homeowner is the end . Get to the customer . Don't be intimidated by Idiots like jet he is so angry he cant think straight. Think and reflect on the great issue that is before us . A psyloshy of life . It clears the mind . I don't know what else to do right now too much at once ,>>>
JET
Chucky.......stop the insults, it only defines who (and what) you really are. I don't insult you personally although I could because you've given more than enough proof here of what (and who) you are. As long as you remain an insurance lap dog you'll get no sympathy (or empathy) from me or the majority of others here. Just give straight answers when asked and if you're not asked, don't post, simple as that. BTW, learn the phuck to SPELL, would 'ya? WTF is "psyloshy"?......a drunk moment in mind only? :P :P
JET>>>
Jed
psyloshy..............I laughed 'till I cried but was'nt gonna come out of my hole on that one.... :laugh:>>>
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