How has roofing changed for your area of expertise over the years?

I've been involved with residential roofing for over 32 years now, since 1985 and many things have changed along the way. Some for the better and some not, depending on who you ask.

Concerning advancements in equipment, there has been tremendous improvement. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. When I first started out, we would pick up the supplies in a regular old single cab pick up truck and load them up on the roof by hand. If the roof was low enough, we would stand on top of the stacks and pass them up, holding the bundles up over our heads at times. If not, we would unload them onto the ground and carry them up the ladder on our shoulders. Compare that to ladder elevators, boom trucks, etc. :laugh:

After getting all the new shingles out of the truck and the tear off into it, we would get two or three guys to go to the landfill carrying a pick ax with them to jab into the pile and drag it out the back. That was some ridiculously hard work there my friend. Sometimes we would do work for someone who provided an old dump truck but these old trucks were pretty rough and no comparison to today's dump trailers.

And of course we nailed the roofs by hand, however we were all pretty fast at it. Some of us nailing on over 20 squares in a day at times. Somewhere around 15 was just a normal day. The invention of the nail gun has made it where any old Joe could get fast at laying shingles pretty quickly but I believe that this has led to a great reduction in the quality of the average roofing installation and also led to more do it your selfers adding even more so to the lower quality.

Concerning products, part of me wants to say the invention of laminate/dimensional shingles improved the quality as just about all roofs back then were 3-tab shingles but being in the repair business for many years now, I see tremendous problems with these dimensional shingles coming off steep slope roofs all the time. But a lot of that goes back to the reduction in the quality of the installation mentioned above. However fairly often, I see these type shingles coming apart and only the bottom half sliding off the roof as they are made in two pieces and just glued together. Today's low slope products are far and above the old rolled roofing that was commonly used back in the day. That one's a lock. Then there's all the different types of underlayment used today. I wouldn't argue with anyone saying synthetic, etc is much better than the old stuff, yet at the same time I personally don't think it matters much as they didn't even use any underlayment at all on some roofs back then.

Concerning labor, Again it depends on who you ask. I'm pretty sure most of today's Contractors will tell you that the immigrant labor used by most of them these days is much better than us ole Americans. And it may be as of today's date but back in the day, 4-5 of us good ole boy roofers could put a real arse whooping on a 35-40 square roof in a single day and that was using hammers instead of guns and our shoulders and legs instead of ladder elevators.

Concerning Sales and Marketing, the internet has made it where you can get a lot more information about your company out to a lot more people more easily than ever before and you can put up or take down your advertisements at any time instead of having to wait until the end of the year to change or cancel your yellow page ad. :laugh:

Concerning Insurance, Back in the day, if there was a hail or wind storm the insurance companies would just tell the homeowners to call around and get three quotes and then pick someone to do the roof. But today, if your work area is ever hit by enough hail to make it onto the hail swath reports subscribed to by all the storm chasers, 80-90 percent of your marketing efforts will be to no avail and you'll have to go around beating on doors promising the moon and stars if you expect to get much work out of it. Personally, I think this change has led to another reduction in quality.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a life long roofer that was born the son of a life long roofer!

How have things changed over the years in your area of expertise?

I am less and less able to tolerate the mountain of red tape and dealing with the small minds in permit departments anymore! It is just maddening!

I just went round and round with one such yesterday. The "lady" chewed me out for being late paying the $75 permit fee. I told her that I tried 6 times to pay it but every time the person I needed to talk to was: out of the office, sick, not working that day, in a meeting. I called her 6 times and left voicemail for 10 days, which she ignored. My employee walked into their office with a check in his hand to pay, they told him the proper person was out of the office.

You give a small person a little authority over people who're getting things done, and so often they see it as their duty to throw roadblocks up for you.

Sick of it!

I don't think anyone tore a roof off in North Texas until the mid '80s. I use to do 3 and 4 layer tearoffs regularly. The most I ever tore off was 7 layers. Those shingles from the '40s and '50s were really thin. Since insurance pays for near everything now, no more than one layer on a house. And back in the '80s, most of my work was straight layover wood shingles. Easy money and I think I was the only roofer who ever did a good job with that. I nested my shingles, pulled and reflashed the vents and walls, and cut back the rakes. I would not even consider laying over wood shingles now. And I think I am the only roofer around here that knows how to redeck a house. There is some really pitiful roofing going on now. Seems it is all about production and putting money in the middle man's pocket.

I have used Senco staples since they first came out in '74. I have never had any problems. Seems no one ever learned how to use them. The same with coil nailers. It ain't the tool, it is the idiot behind the tool who won't learn anything. I still use staples on plank decks simply because the result is the best. I do use coil nailers on everything else. I have only hand nailed 3 jobs in over 40 years because it was requested. Hated every minute of it. I am just too big to sit on my hip all day. It is much easier for me to bend over. I have a strong back.

Yeah Tim, I forgot to mention the red tape one, rules and regulations. I feel that I learned from the best, not just my father but all of his partners and coworkers. They were all top notch roofers and I spent years working under their supervision. Possibly that fact alone but maybe something within myself also has always made me dislike ignorant rules and regulations and the folks that dish them out. If they make sense it's one thing but most of the time they don't and that's a whole different thing.

This reminds me of the time I was being considered for a very large contract on a condominium complex and they brought their own "expert" to the board meeting they had called me to. I was referred to them by the owner of a very large realty company that I had done a lot of work for over the years and he was there as well. To make a long story short, the so called "expert" was talking down to me and trying to add a LOT of unnecessary things to the contract thus making life difficult on me and my guys with no extra pay for any of it so I stood up in front of all of them and gave him a piece of my mind.

When I sat back down, the realtor who had referred me spoke up and said "He's a little rough around the edges but he's the best roofer I've ever came across". Later I regretted what I had done figuring I had blown the contract. Until the board chairman called me three days later, gave me the job and said don't worry about the expert we had at the meeting, he won't be around anymore! It was 436 squares if I remember correctly. ;)

Natty, where I grew up most all the roofs we did were one layer tear offs on walkable slopes. It wasn't until I moved to Birmingham, AL 21 years ago that I learned what a true roofer was as many roofs were steep and multiple layers. We did one with 8 layers on it one time and I've done many on the South Side of downtown that were built in the early 1900's where they had 1 x 4 spaced decking with wood shakes on the bottom, a couple layers of big diamond shape shingles over that and then a couple layers of three tabs. We redecked them all. One was 4 stories on a 10/12 slope with 6 layers. :huh:

Natty said "There is some really pitiful roofing going on now. Seems it is all about production and putting money in the middle man's pocket."

Yep! It got so bad ( and cheap ) around here that I just started specializing in repairs since there were so many roofs that needed repair and you have to actually be a roofer to do it efficiently and profitably instead of just a businessman or an "insurance restoration specialist". Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with either of the two but I'm just saying! :dry:

Natty, my dad used Senco P7 staple guns for years in the 70's. Had no issues.

So much has changed - don't know where to start - A lot of changes have come about, a large amount depends on demographics & geographic locations.

BUR has just about vanished here in Colorado - There's still a substantial market for it in California. Single plies have won out; BUR is simply too tedious/labor intensive & requires significantly more practical experience/"artsy" capacities of the typical mechanic, as opposed to the more simplistic, "cleaner" single-ply applications.

The labor pool - which was a help in accentuating the above, has become a complete different animal over the past three decades. No need to expand - We all know what we must deal with these days.

Solar energy - I've stepped-aside over the last couple decades - Not sure we're any better off really. There's been a lot of hoopla correlating with the past 8yr stint admn. But really?

Just noticed an article that d Tesla LOST $850mil last year - Had revenues of $750mil....How the heck do you take in $750mil, then spend $1.6 trillion? Law-suites? Huge debacles? On an added note; Tesla will sell you a 30sq solar shingle roof for $65,000. How is that reasonable?

And yes - Absolutely nothing wrong with stapling comp shingles, although the sheeples will argue to the end how stapling is deficient compared to nailing.

HAND nailing could be arguably better, however, with the overwhelming use of coil nailers, shingles are typically grossly miss-nailed. However again; The errors of todays' fastening are masked/somewhat corrected with the advancements in the adhesive strips. IMHO.

Curious what the surface area of a staple head is vs a nail?

Surface area? Kinda apples to oranges.

I will note that dealing with a synthetic shake manufacture, they found that the wide-crown staple held superior to nails with their particular product. I'll also note; Regardless of the manufactures findings/recommendations, a lot of roofers insist on using coil nails.

Back to comp. The bottom-line is practical experience - What actually happens.

Staples can be improperly placed as can nails - Both function/perform as intended if installed properly.

In my practical experiences, I've very rarely, (almost never), come across a properly air-nailed application, whereas, staples where generally correct, (have witnessed some bad staple applications though). Will note w/hand-nailing, it's hard to foul that up.

IOW's - I would have much more faith trusting the newbie with a staple gun than with a coil-nailer.

Interesting. we hand nailed until I was about 20, and then we went to staples. I still use them. Hand nails are good, but so are staples and coil nails if they are applied correctly. What drives me crazy is when I see the guys nailing 7 or 8 nails into every shingle. When you ask them why so many, they just look at you stupidly. Unless it is a mansard, 4 is all that is required. I just finished a roof today using the Malarky Modified bit shingles. They are NICE!!I was really impressed. If you haven't tried them yet, do so.

TomB Said: Surface area? Kinda apples to oranges.

I will note that dealing with a synthetic shake manufacture, they found that the wide-crown staple held superior to nails with their particular product.

Well there ya go. I was going to explain it but it appears you eventually got it. :-)

John, the Legacy?

I have to say the biggest change overall has been caused by the internet. I started using a computer for files, etc. in 1985 but the good access to the net and expanded resources that got linked to it revolutionized the availability of specifications, etc. Time was everyone staying on top of things had a huge row of binders in the office, constantly needing updating, and then two or three decades later, everything is just at your fingertips. I still have the binders, but I very rarely open them up anymore.

Youtube videos of equipment and installation, government ES reports, forums like this, you're never far from what you need to know to document and improve. I still have a fax machine, but email...talk about fast and flexible.

Pushing fasteners in with air is a big difference. Better fasteners of all kinds is a difference. Better equipment, lighter weight equipment, cordless equipment...all good. Better gas mileage, better safety awareness, all good.

Lower actual industry wages relative to the overall economy, not so good. Miss the kettle, but don't miss the droplet of sweat that pops on fresh hot and makes it fly up and sting you. Well actually I really do miss even that.

Miss the pungent smell of cedar that I used to work with all the time. Very seldom now.

Egg: said .........Miss the pungent smell of cedar that I used to work with all the time.

After a full day on the roof the smell would get in your clothes and hair. The only time I would ever come home from work and my wife would say I smelled good. Cedar was very abrasive on clothes as you could wear out your butt cheek after a few days.

Egg, Yes the Malarky Legacy shingles. They lay FLAT, are strong and yet they cut easily. Good stuff.

Roofguy - "Well there ya go. I was going to explain it but it appears you eventually got it. :-)"

I still don't "get it"......There's a lot more going on there than "surface area", if you're referring/comparing nails to staples that is.