Homeowner Question: Is my modified bitumen roof installed correctly?

Album here: http://imgur.com/a/3NhKm

My new roof was installed last week. I had a 400 sq. foot section of flat roof that was supposed to receive modified bitumen. I wanted to add a bit of pitch but the estimator/project manager pushed back on that idea because he said the cost of framing would be exorbitant. All I really wanted was a couple of inches to eliminate the ponding so I asked about tapered insulation. He had never heard of it but asked his guy, came back with a reasonable price, and I approved it and signed the deal.

Well, when they showed up they came with standard 1/2 inch foam board from Lowe's. I shot that down immediately and made them try to find tapered insulation like I wanted while they seemed to have not ever heard of this product and insinuated it was some exotic material largely of my own imagining. (I replied, "Go on Google, search for "tapered insulation", and you will find it is manufactured by Owens Corning, GAF, Firestone, Johns Manville, etc.") Well, the price came back as "expensive" (I didn't ask) and the owner offered to frame out some pitch for the same price as the original agreement. As that was all I wanted in the first place, I agreed.

After the crew left, I went up to inspect my new "modified bitumen" roof membrane and found something that does not look like any modified bitumen membrane I am used to seeing. I have always seen cap sheets that pretty much resemble three tab or laminated/architectural shingles in texture and rigidity. This is almost smooth, with a very fine grain, and is very soft. It's squishy and you can't touch it when the sun is on it without leaving a mark.

As far as the roofing company is concerned, they are done. If this is a base sheet, they have no plans of coming back to put a cap sheet on. There are also some installation quality issues. I'm trying to get another company out here for an opinion but am curious what you folks think.

Thank you for your time.

Lowes? You get the commercial material from a place like ABC Supply. Must be Jose' never heard of them. The best thing you can do is send a few pictures to this site. Mike from New Zealand is one of the best craftsmen I have ever seen using the Modified material, and I am sure he would critique it for you. Is it/was it self adhered or Torch on? Tapered insulation is readily available, so the clowns that you used hadn't a clue what they were talking about. On the other hand, I have never seen modified bitumen that looked like shingles, three tab or other wise. If it is granulated, it looks like rolled roofing, and if it is smooth, it is just a asphalt colored surface that is quite tough.

Yes, ABC is eventually who they contacted. All the Joses on the job were just swinging hammers, project management and ownership come from GC and insurance backgrounds. I chalked up the unfamiliarity with tapered insulation to being "residential" contractors. Live and learn.

I have a lot of pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/3NhKm

I wasn't sure of the capacity of the upload function here and already had that album up. If I need to, I can upload them directly.

As for appearing like shingles, I just meant the texture & granulation like roll roofing, as you mentioned. The "smooth" modified bit is what I've never seen and is why I'm reserving judgement until I hear from pros. However, "tough" is not how I would describe this material. I don't expect to leave permanent footprints standing on the membrane for a few seconds on a warm but not hot day.

-I've never worked with a cap sheet that has lines on it like that, only base sheet.

-In one picture your holding up the last 4-5 inches of a seam near the edge. It looks like there may be some type of material on the seam just past where your holding up. Do you know if it is the common spreadable black tar or an adhesive? Regardless, it's baloney.

-To comment about the foot prints. We used to use GAF Liberty SBS mod. bit. and I finally went with a different product because it was so soft in the summer time that we could hardly work with it. When it was necessary to grab the end of a sheet and pull it straight and tight, your fingers would just peel the granulars right off with some of the asphalt, resembling something from a horror movie. Foot prints were unavoidable, and it was still soft two years later in the summer.

-They should have put a boot on that pipe, but to be honest, at least they did a decent mud job. The boot could easily be installed wrong, but a good mud job will last 10 years depending on your area. I'm not justifying it, rather pointing out the bright side. I might get flamed a bit for this one! :laugh:

-I find it odd that they used drip edge on some spots but folded it over on other spots. Am I seeing this correctly?

Yes, seeing lines from the street are what initially set me off.

Can't tell at this point if it's actually adhesive or not.

There is a drip-edge on one section but the majority is, indeed, simply flopped over the edge and not adhered to anything. I can push against it and feel it move.

I was expecting to see the stink pipe flashed with modified bit. Or a boot. Wasn't sure what to think of the mud job.

If it helps, there is sand on the surface. I saw Tamko rolls onsite but didn't take note of the product. Maybe their glass base?

Well, the company I had on the line to come give an opinion doesn't want to "get involved" and is telling me I'll have to contact the original contractor. But how is a layman supposed to develop an informed line of argument to use with the original contractor if no other contractors will weigh in?

ismyroofright Said: Well, the company I had on the line to come give an opinion doesnt want to get involved and is telling me Ill have to contact the original contractor. But how is a layman supposed to develop an informed line of argument to use with the original contractor if no other contractors will weigh in?

Layman? Hell you know about this than the dudes you hired

Just a couple of points:

1. Every product has a manufacturer and every manufacturer has specifications for its product, and every specification has a corresponding ES report, with associated testing results, to substantiate it. Whatever product and system was used should be a matter of record on the contract. Whatever manufacturer was entailed should be able to pass judgement on the application.

2. Your avenues of redress are specific to your locale. Building department, license board, courts... involve them.

I appreciate your response. I received advice elsewhere about having a home inspector take a look at it and I think I'll do that as my first step to establish an official record of the deficiencies that have been pointed out here and on other forums.

Unfortunately, while the manufacturer and line of architectural shingles is listed on the contract, the modified bitumen was not defined. There's also the matter that we are personally and professionally entangled with the owners of the company, which is why I'm going a little slow with this before heading to the oversight bodies.

That's your call. It would establish a paper trail if everything has been off the record until now.

In general, home inspectors will flag defects or suspected defects in their reports but usually suggest seeking the advice of a licensed roofing contractor (or roofing professional) as they really usually have no firm grasp of specifics.

After decades in this business I consider myself a professional. Always listened to my mentors, read everything I could, poured over manuals and specs, paid attention to what other people have done and are doing. Experimented on my own and paid attention to the long-term results. Still, in spite of all that effort, I find that mistakes get made, and some of them get made not by the usual scapegoats, but actually by me. I've always found it best to be able and willing to just admit I messed something up and do whatever it takes to make it right. There's usually a legitimate answer or two for every problem, and being in denial about it only creates more hardship all the way around. Taking responsibility is what defines a professional.

When my clients tell me, "I'm so glad I'm never going to have a problem with this roof." I always tell them, "Not so fast! I hope you're right and I think you are, but everybody makes mistakes and what matters is not that you make them, but how you take care of them."

After looking at the pictures it kind of reminds me of a sanded fibreglass base sheet that they used to hot mop on. Had some one time that I tried to torch down and it would just melt away with the heat. I think it was Tamco.

Another thing it reminds me of is that old Steve Miller Band song "Take the money and run"

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: Well Im not surprised, I wouldnt go beyond giving a verbal (without prejudice) opinion to the owner on something like that unless there was some kind of expert witness payment forthcoming, regardless of the outcome in the end, or a contract to redo or finish it as part of the discussions. Why would another contractor stick his neck out for nothing?.

I offered to pay for the assessment itself and to use their services for the redo if I proved unable to get the first contractor to rectify the situation.

What the heck does that mean?

One of the owners is my wife's friend and we are in the middle of a contract to perform some marketing work for them.

You need to sort this out face to face with them rather than discuss the situation on internet forums.

Agreed. However, given the entanglements mentioned above, I'm trying to gather information to make sure I'm informed on the topic and not coming off as an ignorant hothead.

Have you paid for any of the work?, sometimes that helps. If you havent, have they asked why?

I've paid fifty percent of the total. The second half isn't due until the gutter sub shows up to complete his work in a week or so.

I'll mull things over through the weekend and pay a visit to the office next week. I'll be sure to update and not leave you all hanging.

Here's the simple truth.

You have been hosed. The product used is not intended to be a finished exposed roof surface, the installation is not correct, nor is the product intended to be used as it was.

When your "contractor", and that's a term used more in jest than anything, did not know what tapered insulation was, you should have run, and what you got is as much your fault as his. You cannot say you didn't hear a voice in your head telling you there was trouble.?.? Ignoring that voice is the cause of most of our problems in life.

Maybe this guy is great on shingles, but at this point, your best bet is to take your 50% and hire a real roofing contractor to finish the job right.

From what I've read, you know what "right" is.... but here's a list. Get it in an itemized proposal.

Tapered ISO Wood nailers matching the insulation height. 160-180 mil modified bitumen, granule surfaced, or smooth and coated with Aluminum. Since you can see it, I'd say granules in a color chosen by you. 24 ga. Kynar finished metal edge flashing, again in a color chosen by you. Get a copy of his insurance and verification in writing that he is adequately insured, IF he burns your house down.

At least you have a nice base sheet for them to start on.

in the picture showing the closeup, the product used is thicker than 43# base sheet, probably Tamko Versabase.

There are many roofing companies that either financially or mentally refuse to take a loss on any project. They justify shortcuts by adhering to this philosophy. The roofer here, traded framing pitch for putting on a cap sheet and in his mind probably felt it was an even trade and fair. Take Mike's advice and never allow him back on your roof.

Mike Hicks said it and it is true. They only did half of the job, and if you let that thing get rained on a couple of times, you won't be able to put modified over it either. In my wildest drunken dreams I could not do that to someone. If this homeowner is going to be doing a marketing campaign for these clowns, he had better figure that they are going to be needing a LOT of marketing because they sure as hell can't roof!