Go make your own statue

I just finish writing a chapter in reponse to you Twill and pushed the wrong button and lost it all, so I'm on reruns.

Twill, I like what you said. Most are in the same mix of thinking. Racism is so inbread and more often than experience it is taught by word of mouth.

An example: I took the train from Harrisburg to Philadelphia last month to visit my brother. Unbeknownst to me there is a ticket language and I sat in someone elses seat. He returned from grabbing some snacks and approached saying "Sir, you are in my seat" No offense for the Sir, my hair is extremely short due to chemo. I offered to move and he said " No, do you mind me sitting next to you". We spoke the whole 2 hour trip, I found it enjoyable and we shook hands at the end of our journey. I told friends of this encounter and they thought it was wonderful. After the nicities I mentioned he was Black and 6'5"....nothing needed to be said, it was written all over their faces. I did this intentionally, for years now when I speak of simple interludes with people I never mention ethnicity because it doesn't matter, should not matter. I was raised by parents that saw a person, not a color or religion. Respect begets respect.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/08/15/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/amp/

Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

If you don't have "the physical kind" of freedom, do the other kinds matter, much? Because if you think they do, then essentially aren't you saying that the slaves were essentially free because the only freedom they lacked was the physical kind?

To have true freedom you first have to posses the power to have physical freedom. In the purely physical realm, I hear the pleadings of the unprepared attempting to make the case for their lack of focus. For whatever the reason they chose to prioritize their lives differently than me. That's great, I thrive on different - if everyone were doing life the same as me, I'd find another way to do life. I don't like crowds, I prefer the path least taken for myself.

All of that a response to "denying education while arming ourselves to the teeth." It is the age-old argument made by people in my weird little sphere of life where we not only believe in making ourselves stronger to survive bad times, we enjoy it. It's a lifestyle, one we dig! And your education or arming argument is the same argument made by the "You can't eat gold, so I'll stockpile food" crowd. Or the "I don't need to have food on hand, I have guns and ammo and I'll just take your food." It wrongly presupposes that those who are armed, are not also educated.

Patty Cakes Said: I just finish writing a chapter in reponse to you Twill and pushed the wrong button and lost it all, so Im on reruns.

Twill, I like what you said. Most are in the same mix of thinking. Racism is so inbread and more often than experience it is taught by word of mouth.

An example: I took the train from Harrisburg to Philadelphia last month to visit my brother. Unbeknownst to me there is a ticket language and I sat in someone elses seat. He returned from grabbing some snacks and approached saying Sir, you are in my seat No offense for the Sir, my hair is extremely short due to chemo. I offered to move and he said No, do you mind me sitting next to you. We spoke the whole 2 hour trip, I found it enjoyable and we shook hands at the end of our journey. I told friends of this encounter and they thought it was wonderful. After the nicities I mentioned he was Black and 65....nothing needed to be said, it was written all over their faces. I did this intentionally, for years now when I speak of simple interludes with people I never mention ethnicity because it doesnt matter, should not matter. I was raised by parents that saw a person, not a color or religion. Respect begets respect.

We are not required to be reckless and foolish with our lives and family in order to be labelled non-racist. When we were kids we learned life's biggest lessons from what went on around us. In junior high, long before anyone was even talking about racism in my small town, I learned that black kids were more likely - by far - to pick on white kids. I didn't know to be racist, me and my friends were just trying to survive each day in junior high, and we knew that to do that we should stay away from the black kids.

In the city I live in, 240,000 population: Blacks are 23% of the population, and commit 74% of the crime. According to state crime stats. We don't avoid the east side of town at night because we're racist, we avoid it because we have an instinct for survival that was shaped by life experiences and simple math.

White people do black people no favors when they pretend this isn't the case, and therefor condone decades of brainwashing by black leaders who tell young black people that the reason they have less is because white wants to keep them down. For the most part, whitey is just trying to survive and doesn't have time to work to keep black people suppressed.

I was going somewhere else with this Tim. But you did give a good answer

Roofguy Said:Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

If you dont have the physical kind of freedom, do the other kinds matter, much? Because if you think they do, then essentially arent you saying that the slaves were essentially free because the only freedom they lacked was the physical kind?

To have true freedom you first have to posses the power to have physical freedom. In the purely physical realm, I hear the pleadings of the unprepared attempting to make the case for their lack of focus. For whatever the reason they chose to prioritize their lives differently than me. Thats great, I thrive on different - if everyone were doing life the same as me, Id find another way to do life. I dont like crowds, I prefer the path least taken for myself.

All of that a response to denying education while arming ourselves to the teeth. It is the age-old argument made by people in my weird little sphere of life where we not only believe in making ourselves stronger to survive bad times, we enjoy it. Its a lifestyle, one we dig! And your education or arming argument is the same argument made by the You cant eat gold, so Ill stockpile food crowd. Or the I dont need to have food on hand, I have guns and ammo and Ill just take your food. It wrongly presupposes that those who are armed, are not also educated.

Alba I read the post and it reminded me of my Mom. As a young girl 0f 15 (Scotland) she entered "the service" in England. The service was a respectable position of training to serve the wealthy. Proper child care, cooking, table service etc., walk and talk like a lady. Their provisions were ample. Was my Mom a slave? treated like one...NO. This was and is still is today a respectable position, so what makes it different?

Roofguy, you said it yourself "we were told to stay away from the black kids". As many do, as chilren, we listen to our peers, that's what we do. I came to the States at 9 yo, never saw anyone other than white, dropped into the south Bronx which was a mix of Irish, German, Italians, Puerto Rican and Negro. Didn't phase me in the least, they were other kids I could play stick ball, roller skate, get wet in the open hydrants etc.

The best I can do is not posion my children and grandchildren with unfounded ideas of a group rather have them approach and deal with an individual. If any individual gives you cause for concern the ball is now in your court.

Roofguy, you said it yourself we were told to stay away from the black kids.

I didn't say we were told to stay away from the black kids, I said that we learned to. We learned this on our own thru experience. In fact my parents couldn't have taught that to us, they were raised in a different time in our hometown where black people were not a factor. My mom's hometown of Iola, KS, until the 60's, still had a sign at the edge of town that said: N#####, Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Ya! They truly were racists in that town.

Black leaders have failed black youth, making them bitter by bomarding them at every turn that whites are the reason they don't have anything.

My apologies, you are correct, I misquoted you. I don't like agreeing with people I disagree with but here we go. I do agree that a formidable black leader would be advantageous to the young black people not just men, to them as a people. Martin Luther was that, I admired him and I think he was a trememdous loss. I found him an inspiration I can only imagine the thoughts knowing he was killed by a white man.

In the 70's I was hitchhicking from Florida to NYC, trucker stopped at a place in Maryland. My one and only true experience of seperate doors for entry and a window to order food. I was appalled and missed breakfast that day.

Alba Said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/08/15/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/amp/

Good read

Alba Said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/08/15/when-white-supremacy-came-to-virginia/amp/

Vanessa Williamson suffers a bad case of white guilt. Her article totally ignores the fact that the first and the largest owner of slaves in the U.S. was a black man.

It is a bit of a stretch but not totally divorced from roofing contractors. There is a certain class of employee who does the spudding, the hot-mopping, the shoveling gravel. Oh the owner might boast that he is not above that work, but he damn sure doesn't do it regularly.

People are more separated by class than by ethnicity. And that usually is a factor of a sorting-out process, not by some preconceived notion that a certain race of people should do certain jobs. They are sorted according to their skillset and their actions in society. Blacks are historically less educated, thus they settle to the low-end jobs. Blacks have been duped by black leaders to think they are owed something they don't have, and that mindset holds them down the same way it holds down some white trash hillbilly who was never taught to work his way up.

Tim, I damn sure DO do that type of work regularly but I grant that a few people like me are exceptions to the norm. I actually enjoy mopping and tear off and I'm extremely good and efficient at both.

Twill, thanks for significant expansion of the scope.

The point of the article is that racism was set up by the ruling establishment to divide and conquer by pitting working whites against their black counterparts .the same game continues today by pitting the working whites against the immigrants while the establishment can enrich itself in peace. "..As a result, the working population in late-17th Century Virginia was quite diverse, including white indentured servants, black and Native American slaves, and free whites who had completed their term of service. Outnumbered, plantation owners grew increasingly fearful of threats to their political control. In particular, there was the danger of a cooperative insurrection across racial lines. The solution was to divide and conquer. Through new laws passed by the Virginia assembly, plantation owners consciously encouraged racial hatred between blacks and poor whites. First, the distinction between freedom and enslavement was specified in explicitly racial, rather than religious, terms. The Virginia assembly established in 1667 that converting to Christianity did not change the condition of blacks and Native Americans in bondage. Previously, some black and native people who could prove that they had been baptized had successfully sued for freedom. Second, the assembly created social distinctions between white servants and black slaves. In 1680, the Virginia assembly passed new legislation preventing “any negroe or other slave” from raising a hand to any white person, a measure that put servants on a par with their masters in their impunity for abuse of enslaved people, and stripped enslaved people of any right of self-defense. In 1691, laws punishing intermarriage between whites and blacks were put in place. Finally, in 1705, the assembly decided that, while white servants could own property, all property owned by slaves was to be seized and sold, with profits “applied to the use of the [white] poor.” Thus the white poor materially benefited from additional oppressions put upon black slaves. In this way, the legal construction of racism helped diffuse the threat of insurrection. Poor white people would now see themselves as allied with those far wealthier than themselves, and would define themselves by race rather than by class..."

egg Said: Tim, I damn sure DO do that type of work regularly but I grant that a few people like me are exceptions to the norm. I actually enjoy mopping and tear off and Im extremely good and efficient at both. .

Well of course there are exceptions. It would be physically impossible for me to do the physical work I did as a roofer in 1982. I'm pretty sure that most of us - on our very best day - couldn't unload 550 100lb bags of granules from a wheat truck and cart them thru a long warehouse hallway and stack them neatly on pallets nonstop for 24 hours. Let alone doing that when we're in our 50's+. Just not possible. I know I couldn't. I doubt seriously that 5% of people could do that on their best day.

That's my point, that most of us have young grunts who do the heavy lifting these days. Those jobs are typically for the unskilled and uneducated, regardless of their ethnicity.

I acknowledge the point you were making, Tim, and couldn't in good conscience even pretend to argue with it. Moving outside its arc a bit though while reflecting on a wide array of social ills we are facing (in my opinion) which only tangentially involve the discussion taking place in this thread, I have to say that one of my pet peeves is when someone, anyone, thinks that something which needs to be done is beneath him or her. I'm not including you in my list of someones, either. One of the things I like most about you is that you walk the talk and you appear to me to have spent your whole life being totally hands-on.

That's what we need. A whole nation of people willing to do the work that has to be done because it has to be done, not because it pays more or carries a higher level of social esteem. There is nothing more noble than simply doing what needs to be done, whatever that happens to be at the moment. Every new generation brings a whole new crop of people that have to be drilled in basic values. No values, no luck.

If we hope to "make America great again" it has to go deep. If we take an entire generation of spoiled, unprincipled, self-centered young people and give them all 80k jobs selling medical equipment, real estate, stocks, pharmaceuticals, etc. why on earth would we blather on and tell the vast majority ff the people using shovels and picks and pruning knives to go back to where they came from and leave us alone to pump our own sewage and shop in the malls for cheap Chinese goods? Everything is connected.