Go make your own statue

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/opinion/why-the-nazis-came-to-charlottesville.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Seems like a simple enough solution. If an American wants a statue of Robert E. Lee, or whoever, or whatever, then quite simply.....make it. Or have it made. Or buy it. Then you can have a statue. In your yard. Even in your community.

Seems American enough.

What seems UN American, is traveling to someone else's property, city or town, and telling them what they MUST do with their own statues and property.

A Gross violation of States rights and individual rights. If you ask me.

If a group of people traveled from throughout the USA and came to Kouts,IN and told us residents that our sidewalks needed to be removed. Or left in place. Or painted. Or whatever....I'd think that they were elitists from the federal government.

The libbies do not grasp the whole Fee Speech concept. They think it only applies to them.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

---Niemöller

:laugh: Can't decide who's side your on today Tim? :laugh:

That quote is used extensively by both sides. It applies equally don't it?

First they came ..." is a poem written by German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility.

Alba Said: First they came ... is a poem written by German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt and responsibility.

Congrats, you just made a very simple concept, complicated.

Redneck translation: Y'all best help me when they're jacking with my stuff, err else I won't help you when theyz jack with yers.

Roofguy Said: The libbies do not grasp the whole Fee Speech concept. They think it only applies to them.

I and most AMERICANS are not even slightly swayed by the argument that this has anything at all to do with free speech.

Spare me the Lawyerly arguments Tim.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212669257220356&set=a.1564998478900.2083908.1053535785&type=3&theater

Twill, I think you're a man of average intellect and I trust that if you work on it a little harder, you can make the connection. Go find your thinking cap; I'm typing on my iPad and not inclined to spoon feed it to you.

There were some fine people on both sides(one of which included the KKK and The Nazis)-said our dear leader and with that statement his moral authority is over.

Alba Said: There were some fine people on both sides(one of which included the KKK and The Nazis)-said our dear leader and with that statement his moral authority is over.

Lol don't blame Trump for your lack of reading comprehension.

There are/were people on both sides of the BLM/Antifa movements, and that is what he was referring to.

I totally understand the importance of any statue....that is why they are there. They are memorable characters that had an influence on the developement of this country. The United States of America is now in a toddler stage in comparision to Europe as an example, they have us beat by thousands of years. This is our history of growth, it will go through growing pains endlessly. I have no problem with the statues remaining where they are, I do have a problem with the flag. We are the United States with our ONE FLAG not two. Recognition of the Confederate flag will live on forever but should not be recognized as our flag.....it is not. I'm not American born but I'm dedicated to the country in which I live. I live close to Gettysburg and if you want to see both sides of the fence come visit. They have already announced they will remove NOTHING, nor should they, this was an historical battle, tribute given to both sides. My favorite story about the surrender of the Civil War was that the Union troops saluted Lee on his travel into the meeting to surrender, if they could do that, we can do better.

Lol dont blame Trump for your lack of reading comprehension.

There are/were people on both sides of the BLM/Antifa movements, and that is what he was referring to.

The GOP senators , prominent businessmen, world leaders ,and just about every sane rational human being on the planet who are unanimously condemning trump for equating both sides, must have a "lack of reading comprehension" .I understand love is blind but you don't have to fall in love with him. he's the president not your daddy.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/16/trump-neo-nazi-comment-world-leaders-react-241703 http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/congress-reaction-trump-comments-paul-ryan/index.html

Ok. Let's stop talking about politics for a moment.

Robert E. Lee. This man with this name was a titan in his day. Each side in this conflict of a hemorrhaging "United" States of America asked him to take charge of their armies. He established himself, as did U.S. Grant, during the Mexican war. Remember The Band singing "The night they drove ol' Dixie down?" That guy.

Gettysburg was a bad day for him because he was human and made a bad mistake. Anyone here ever made one of those? General Longstreet tried to get him to see reason and he wound up being called a traitor because of it.

Ask Pickett about Gettysburg. Well, he's dead so you can't ask.

Shelby Foote was someone I would call truly great. If you don't know him you owe it to yourself to learn more about him. He explained how as a native of Greenville, Mississippi he would have HAD to fight for the south and even though I disagree I HAVE to accord him the respect he deserves for his conviction. He did not believe in slavery or white supremacy. He was not a fascist. He was a gentleman and a scholar and a mench.

Robert E. Lee earned his statue.

Did you know that after the war when his fortunes were in serious disarray a life insurance company offered him 50,000 dollars in 1860 money to put his name on their advertising and he declined?

We get caught up in things and we have to make hard decisions. Sometimes they work out for the best. Sometimes they definitely don't.

Now let's talk politics. A large, ignorant, self-deluded man with little hands that wave around isn't going to work out. A revolving Cadillac gold door that spits out everyone but generals isn't going to work out well for me or the people I care for. The military loves Marshall law. I don't.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but at least I'm trying. I'm going to step up and take credit for that. Too many people. Too much stupid. I'm going to work tomorrow and I expect to do as good a job as I'm capable of. I think it will be a pretty good day, even for a Saturday.

The problem with the confederate legacy is that it has been hijacked by terrorist organizations like KKK or the nazis.they do not defend the men you're talking about but the era when the whites could oppress the minorities at will.

One FACT that belies the debate: Grant owned slaves, Lee did not own slaves.

Twill, I think you're a man of average intellect and I trust that if you work on it a little harder, you can make the connection. Go find your thinking cap; I'm typing on my iPad and not inclined to spoon feed it to you

Not even close Tim. I am way above average intellect. Not a brag. Its something I shied away from most of my life as I tried to fit in. Anyway, that's for another day.

Can I make the connection? Mr. Adams..I can make 100's, if not 1000's of connections. Which connection is most relevant? Which yields any kind of solution? Which is fail safe?..Provides protection for the weak and truly helpless, while getting the fat asses to move, the closed minds to think?

Which do you prefer? The connection that fits your logic? A connection that is locked into the past or one that predicts the future? One that fits a certain ideology? There's no shortage here. Tell me what you want, give me a couple of days, and I can outline an argument for you. Or against you. Or start a 3rd, 4th or 5th wave.

My mind is a blessing. My fault in this world, in it's present condition, is my sense of fairness. And my "thinking cap"? I rarely take it off

I can make the connection to the past. Waaaay past the statues and symbols. Into the history. The people. The players. The perps and the victims. Can you go there?

Slavery and the colonialism was much bigger than the USA. That is part of Mankinds history. All the way back to the ancients. Way beyond the USA history.... we were just pups. Still that's only part of the story. What's going on now? I read an article where someone made the connection between the modern flow of capital and colonialism. It's still a sick world, an ill prepared little planet for 7 billion people. Yet.....to look at 3rd world countries and see the buildings, infrastructure and utilities left behind by the Colonialists...some good did come out of that. Honest people will see both sides. But ...can and should I judge? My family was not subjucated. I personally did not directly prosper. I personally know of no suffering. Statues tell me nothing. Only the oral and written history.

I can connect to the future and the present as well. Are 3rd World Warlords, communists/ fascists and Piss Ant dictators any better? (We already have Socialism, so we need to quit throwing that word around) Why do we support and arm them? How'd the USA end up sleeping with the House of Saud? People are dying and suffering now. When does it get better? Or does it without turning our swords in plowshares?

Is denying Education while arming ourselves to the teeth going to give us any freedom besides the physical kind while locking us into soulless ideologies? Who do we support in this world? Who do we fight?

I see and hear fat, nasty, unhealthy diabolical people of all colors on all sides. And I hear the message of the good and the righteous also. From all sides. All colors.