What today won't bring.......

Good advice GAK. I get a baqd aqttitude about having to "re-start" my business every year and fight this same battle every spring.

Here's an example: Yesterday: Past customer. I've done 3-4 jobs for him. 1 for his dad and MIL. I offer him blow-in insulation, LM Premium shingle and CT 5 star 50 warranty.

I sez "Ron, w/ what you save in energy costs, this roof will not cost you a dime. In fact if it goes over 40 yrs., you'll make money. You are 52. Last roof ever for you, if CT's #'s are right (not mine). PLUS you have THEIR 50 yr. workmanship warranty for when I am long gone!"

What does he say? "I need to get another estimate!" Fair enough. But then he wants me to separate the insulation/ roofing price. At that point I decline.

Gawd I hate spring. I'd rather fight the winter weather, work 1/2 the time for twice the money and sit out March.......

I found out one reason I got beat on the price...I used my suppliers price on O/C shingles instead of the box stores. $80 a square has a hard time pricing against $55 a square, thats 25%+. I was at a disadvantage from the start!

That burns me up......

And then there are the ShowRoom big box Contractors who will give away the roof so they can damn near give away the siding, windows and doors. WHat do they make $3 K GP on all of it?

Roll the calendar back about 2 years on this forum - remember a debate raging about lowering prices to get work and how some thought that was last ditch efforts of those who don't know how to sell? I remember it very clearly! It wasn't you guys in Michigan or Minnesota saying that, I know.

I won't mention any names but one of the biggest mockers of those who felt like they sometimes needed to sell price, was somebody who is in a part of the country that is hurting pretty badly right now. I have to wonder if he's changed his mind about bidding work to try to survive?

I think that many of those who survive this cruddy economy will come out of it with a new appreciation for those who operate in regions where price has always been a major consideration for the building owner. Building owners here in the hail/hurricane belt are much more savvy about roofs than those in other parts of the country by virtue of the fact that they have to buy a new roof for every property about every 10 years or so. That tends to foster less loyalty for to the roofer because the building owner isn't thinking in terms of having to live with the same roof/roofer for 20-30 years.

There are exceptions, of course, and I'm not saying there is no loyalty between roofer-building owner here, it's just harder to come by, imo.

I can agree with you Tim. Wal-Mart Roofing has arrived here this year. In full force. Last year was a warning this year the Tsunami has hit.

twill59 Said: I can agree with you Tim. Wal-Mart Roofing has arrived here this year. In full force. Last year was a warning this year the Tsunami has hit.

If memory serves, your area had a lot of hail in the last years or 2. All it takes is one major hail, tornado, or hurricane event for the storm troopers to flock in, get aggressive, and condition local property owners to think they should shop price.

Yeah Roofguy....the storm chasers killed us here the last 5-6 years. I remember in 1993 when I went in business for myself, we had gotten a hail storm and I quit my job as a golf course supt. and within 3 weeks I had enough work booked to last the next year!! I was chittin in tall cotton.

Fast forward to today and when a storm hits we better get what we can get in the first week, because after that the chasers invade with huge groups of canvassers....the illegals follow......and the work is half ass done in less than 3 months.

With a little luck, maybe the IRS and DOL will help us out someday soon. If they would only make these pimps classify 1099 subs as employees, make us all pay W/C........things would seem more fair.

Yes it is Indy that has been hit the last few years. I am about 3 hrs. north of there

Randy, I don't think any law will get between storm troopers and big profit potential. They're a pretty slick bunch.

The insurance companies are as much to blame as anyone, forcing local contractorts to meet their preferred roofers' prices or lose the work to them. A good start would be a huge billion $ class action suit against one of the big insurance carriers for the games they play...then go after the crooked adjusters who're taking kickbacks from storm troopers...then go after the engineering firms who're generating flawed hail test results for insurance carriers.

Seems as though there's more than enough collusion going on for a huge suit.

Update/: Talked with 5 potential customers on Saturday. Got one OK on Saturday, one on Sunday and one this evening. 3 for 5 I can live with. My pencil is pretty sharp right now but it's going to get a little duller here pretty soon. ;)

The economy does suck,people are price shopping things to death,but haven`t we been thru this before?? back in 1992 when Saddam invaded Kuwait ,and other times,most winters are slow,and spring can get the ball rolling again.I don`t feel a negative attitude is going to help anyone,I tend to believe whoever started the "thats because you live in michigan was trying to get people laughing,You must realise people responded by telling us about all the things they they were doing right,and reminding themselves why people should be happy to have them on their roof. I think we need to show that side to our customers that much more,I always try to explain why I do things a certain way vs. others,I like people to see the amount of work I`ve done in their area,that is still in good shape. I also keep an album of work done in their neighborhoods that fail,and document why,The Topic Twill refers to for instance shows where a lowballer couldn`t afford to go and buy another roll of rubberized bitumen,and had obviously cut the price too closely to afford to lose the days pay they figured to make off the job,by buying that roll they hadn`t figured for. Those same "pseudo" contractors are the 1st ones to insult a customer`s intelligence,by cheating them out of what they were promised. We need to take the extra time to educate our customers,carry cd`s with photos of jobs done improperly,as well as pics of jobs showing how we do it properly and why ,. We all need to keep our heads high,and let the customer know the pride we put into our work,and what drives us to feel that way

I`ve been on this forum a while now,old to some,but to others,I`m still a newbie. Regardless of that I`ve been here long enough to realize ,the people here are generally the ones who care enough to work on improving our games. These times are what drive us to do so more than others. We need to keep our thoughts positive and project that sureness of ourselves,and our capabilities the way we do in the stronger times.

Don`t look down ,and get ready to leave when you hear there`s a much lower price,Usually the customer already knows somethings wrong,and needs to hear us laugh out loud at the ludicrousness of the price. Sometimes its a matter of explaining the material ,and labor costs to show why a person can`t do a job for their price,and do it the way it should be done.The customer will not have confidence in hiring you,if you don`t show the confidence yourself-

Keep the faith people,I have faith in us,and you should too.

Thanks TRG & GAK My negativity might be lifting w/ the sunshine here. I picked up a job yesterday. She is not even getting another price. Wow! Someone at least appreciates that maybe I know what I am doing, finally. (We have not done a roof since Thankgsgiving time!)

The problem that complicates things is that a lower price doesn't always equal lower quality. Is the 18v Dewalt drill at Walmart for $175 lesser quality than the 18v Dewalt drill at Joe's Local Hardware at $195? Walmart's cost for the same product is lower than Joe's cost but the quality is the same.

In roofing terms, my little roofing company in the late 1980's was fairly new - to get new customers I had to "entice" them in some way to get them to try me. Learning from my dad's cost-cutting strategies, I bypassed the local roofing suppliers who were selling cutback asphalt for $2.50/gal, and bought it in our 6,000 gal semi tanker directly from the Money Products plant at $1.37/gal. ABC Supply sold polyester fabric for $10/SQR, but I bought mine by the semi truckload as remnants (much larger rolls) direct from the polyester mill in Spartanburg, SC for $2/SQR. ABC Supply sold 60lb bags of #93 white granules for $10, I bought railcar loads of (1100) "100lb" bags directly from 3M for $5/bag. Like Walmart, I had a much larger investment in inventory, but I could sell a 12-year roof over gravel BUR for $85/SQR and make more profit than my competitors were making charging $160/SQR (keep in mind these were 1986 prices).

In addition, my competitors could install about 15-20 SQRS a day with their hot kettles, where I could install 75-100 SQRS a day with my spray rig (cutback rig, not emulsion), so I had a huge labor advantage over them.

Who do you think was getting the work? Was the customer getting less roof because I was cheaper? Nope. Roofers hated me, customers loved me.

I did this intitially to win new customers, but over time I realized the concept worked well and I just kept doing it.

TRG.......thanks, I needed that.

Just reminding you guys what brought us to the table,Sometimes we all need a reminder,just one hand washing the other,I believe in you people ,and you should too