Side Work

RandyB1986 Said: Man, some of you guys act like you own slaves instead of employees. I have never seen so many tight wads in one spot in my life, lol. Its bad enough when you want to tell them they cant smoke a joint on their own time, but to tell them they cant work on the side......or they must buy materials from you.....or you better work hard thru the week. I had a boss like a few of you guys once......

I told that boss to stick my job up his ass and I would go bid work for myself....for 1/2 what he charges and still make better money then he could pay me. Almost 20 years later....I still stay busy with his former clients and his company is now owned by his ex salesman.

Guess he should have been as worried about his salesman screwing him as he was me feeding my family :silly:

I hope none of your guys are doing the same to you now.......just sayin' ;) ;)

JET>>>

I think you all have some very good points. The homeowner called me on friday afternoon and asked me to finish the roof. He explained to me that he saw the guy while we were working on a neighbors house and asked him if he could do his roof. The HO said he thought it would be good so the guys could make some extra money on the weekend. this was a 30 sq house with a back porch roof that was flat. This employee is not one of our main guys. He is not capable of doing a roof by himeself.

I have always agreed with the if we have a few days of rain during the week they should come in on a saturday so everyone can make money. I dont think that if we are working full weeks then they should have to work on the weekends.>>>

Cell Phones....do you guys let your workers have them at work?>>>

I would state (nearly absolutely) that if your employees are doing side jobs, some or all of the materials and equipment that are going into it were previously yours.

There's a fortune to be made in this business if you pay nothing for labor or materials, and have no other manner of overhead (such as pesky licenses, WC and GL), and get paid unreported cash. And they know it.

Kudos to you if you have that rare individual employee who wouldn't even use your nails or mastic on a side job.>>>

jesse Said: I think you all have some very good points. The homeowner called me on friday afternoon and asked me to finish the roof. He explained to me that he saw the guy while we were working on a neighbors house and asked him if he could do his roof. The HO said he thought it would be good so the guys could make some extra money on the weekend. this was a 30 sq house with a back porch roof that was flat. This employee is not one of our main guys. He is not capable of doing a roof by himeself.

Jesse, If he got the job while doing your job, I would FIRE HIM! That's not cool.>>>

that home owner set him up! they deserve each other.>>>

IMO, if I bid on the job , and you work for me, I better not catch you this weekend doing this roof, if I do, you will be starting your own business then and there. I have heard a lot on here over the months about under the table competition, no comp, no gl, no benefits, cash only, and they are a very big reason , you lose jobs , pay higherr insurance premiums, etc. This has nothing to do with controling someones life on the weekend, I could care less if any of my guys get drunk, go fishing, go to church, whatever, THAT, is none of my business., and , also, if they have a side job, I don't care where they buy materials, and I don't care if they do it on their own time, none of my business. They will not be working here though, if they bite the hand that feeds them, and feeds me, that is the only place I draw a line. You can't tell me how easy it is to start and build and continue your business, 'If it was that easy , everone would do it", so until any of my people want to walk the walk, I do not welcome them , when they are working with me, as competition. iF THEY SERIOSLY WANT TO COMPETE, then you know what, or walk the walk, let's see what happens on a level playing field, wouldn't be fair if I had to run the ball up-hill the whole game, while they always ran downhill. So, my opinion is somewhere in the middle on this. Case closed.>>>

Jesse, based on your last post about him being approached by a neighbor on one of your jobs, dump him now. That is not proper and cannot be tolerated. As to side work in general........... I have worked for a lot of different companies. I always did side work, no matter who I worked for. I have a very hard time banning side work. I have very mixed feelings about it and as Copperman and elcid said there are issues that can come back and bite me in the ass if things go south... and things can go south in a heartbeat.. I don't worry about my guys going on their own. Go ahead, have fun. I have had my foreman sign a non-compete paper since I have hired his wife to help out in the office a couple times a week. She signed one also. In this trade is very easy to find side work. A couple of repairs, a small roof job can provide some easy cash in the pocket for a guy. It can make a big difference in the personal finances. Who doesn't need a little extra cash? It's a tough call. I don't want to dictate to anyone what they can and cannot do. But I don't want it to affect my life and business.>>>

Because I somehow have the ability to look like a lowly roofer and not a roofing company executive, sometimes I get approached by a neighbor looking to get off cheap by trying to get a roofer to do his work on the side. I usually mention to the guy that I could lose my job by doing it and kind of feel for where he's coming from and whether he persists. Outcomes have varied from my company getting the job at my normal rates to me telling the sob what a greedy bustard he is for trying to get someone to risk their job to save him a few bucks.>>>

This morning I explained to the employee that it was unacceptable for him to do that. Then I brought everyone in and explained to them that if they do something like this they will be fired to.>>>

see Jed's post WE GOT TAKEN This will be his next move :(>>>

---I had a guy working for me that was doing side work and charging the material on MY account. My supplier thought it was me doing the job so they didn't question it. Of course, when I got the bill and saw some delivery addresses that were not familiar the jig was up. I called my suppliers and notified each that this person was not authorized to charge any materials. When confronted he confessed that he would be paying me out of the job payment, blah, blah blah...and expected to continue the practice. I told him that he could start his own company with my blessing but he could not do both. ---In spite of that experience, I accept sidework as SOP for roofers. I do expect to be treated fairly. That is, job leads off my jobs are mine. Relatives and friends of theirs are theirs. Roofing is a tough trade and the guys that work for me are friends and I appreciate them so I am willing to do as much as I can to help them survive. I do not ever hire strangers. Thus, I am more trusting and tolerant. I know that other companies have to be much stricter or they will be taken advantage of and possibly even go under if they are too giving. ---I also do not always have work...so I am actaully glad when they have a side job. I allow them to schedule it accordingly. They might say, "My uncle wants me to roof such and such..." I say, "We will finish this weeks job on Wed. Set it up for Thursday through the weekend." ---I am too easy going as my wife will point out and I have been taken advantage of many times. I have at least a dozen people owing me money, some several thousand. I told my wife a generous person sleeps at night with a smile and a scrooge worries and frets over a few pennies. I have tightened up a little bit but I know it will happen again. Dishonest people cannot always be avoided. A friend of mine works for a large apartment. I asked him if they ever take people to court over unpaid rent, damage, etc. He said, the owner has a policy about never kicking a skunk. ---The bottom line is each company is different and will have their own policies about sidework. By the way, I have worked for over 10 different roofing companies down through the years. None ever complained about me doing side work and I did plenty. Lanny>>>

I'm just wonderin' why after being called a tightwad slave owner, and given a hearty F.U. I can't get an answer to my follow up? Was I that inconsiderate and unreasonable?

It is worth pointing out that many industries have employment restrictions and considerably stringent attendence requirements. Why are the needs of a professional contracting company any less or more important than the needs of an NFL franchise? The scales may be vastly different, but the cores are the same.

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Mike, I did'nt realise you were expecting a follow up or would have done so. If the follow up is to the question posed:- And can any of you really say with a straight face that a guy not showing up for work so that he could do a cash deal for a LEGITIMATE COMPETITOR is OK in your book? Come on, seriously?

Then the answer would be no, clearly, but that was'nt the sole issue being addressed. The "hearty F/U" was'nt aimed at you personally but at the policy of purchasing 10 sq or less of materials directly from you which I think is just petty. As for the professional contracting/NFL question, it's rhetorical. >>>

Thank you Jed. I did see that I left off a critical part of the question. The "?" was previously not present in my sentence: Maybe that sheds a different light on your view?

However, addressing your last post, I had no policy of any kind on side work, until the above described scenario took place just a couple years ago. The policy had to be enforcable, and it had to address the occurance firmly. Since almost no low slope work takes place in our area as a "side job", my policy is not terribly restrictive. It's not like they are going to go do a side foam job, or buy a Varimat for buddy bob's garage.

I have 4 former employees that are now in business for themselves. I wish them all the best in their efforts, as I hope the same for me. It's a competitive world.

I think Serrano's points were well stated regarding the effect that side work can have on the industry, and the rubber stamp that we give it when it's allowed. However, that doesn't stop me from recommending some of my guys to a homeowner when they have a project that just isn't quite "up my alley". In fact I'm glad to provide the lead and see the guys put a few extra bucks in their pocket doing something for 1/2 the price I could have done it. I know they will do it right too, which is hit-or-miss for the consumer if they are relying on the yellow pages.>>>