New business start

Hello Folks;

I am writing this post after about a two week period of just watching and reading. I understand the concept of this message board and I may get flamed but I hope I don't. I have been working as a salesman for a local roofing company (NOT storm chasers). We do a fair number of repair jobs and even a little light commercial. However, our bread and butter is storm damaged roofs. I would say that 90% of what we do is insurance work. I will admit that I have never swung a hammer on a roof (or a nail gun for that matter)my experience is from the sales and estimation side of the business. I'm sure others have come and asked before but I want to start my own business specializing in replacements. Tell me what I'm missing here? I will obtain my contractors license, liability policy and tax ID. I will handle marketing and advertising. I am familiar with quickbooks for accounting. I'm not familiar with Xactimate yet but I shall learn in short order. I have two local crews that will contract the work for me. They carry their own insurance, use their own tools etc. They do great work! Is there some huge glaring reason for me to not do this? I don't hope to do EVERY roof in town, just start fairly small and focus on quality work. Build a referral base and make a comfortable living. I am a stand up guy with strong morals and want to do things the RIGHT way. I would sincerely appreciate any advice from the group. I have learned a bunch by reading posts here and I respect the groups opinions. Thank you in advance.

Go for it. On the other hand, don't be surprized when some of "Your" crews start to compete against you too. There is a lot of overhead in doing it right and without the abiliity to do some of the work yourself, it is going to be a hard row to hoe. Good luck!

Are you not making enough money working for the extablished company already? Why leave?

Thank you guys for the quick replies. I am fortunate to live in an area where we have fairly regular damaging hail storms. Someone told me that in my area, the average roof lasts seven years. We still have thousands of homes with T lock shingles on them which seem to be fairly easy to get bought. Oldschool, To be honest, I'm selling plenty of jobs (even in the slow season) the problem lies with the way that I'm paid. I receive a small sign up draw when the customer commits, then I get a small "first check" draw and the balance doesn't get paid to me until all monies are collected and roof is inspected by regional. This process can take months and I have to rely on too many others in the meantime. I got to thinking a while back that with a little hard work and effort, I can learn to do everything that my company does for me. If I can do this, I can be paid accordingly and if I fail, it will be because of me and I don't have to leave it in the hands of someone else. I do understand the gravity of the economic times and the overhead that is involved. But, if I follow conservative business plans my thinking was that there is enough work to make a decent living. Again, my goal isn't to be rich and move to the Bahamas by the end of the month. I'd like to do between five and ten roofs a month. Do them the right way, and earn a comfortable living in the process. Thanks again guys for your responses, I want to make sure I'm thinking about everything before I make the leap. I love the business. I only regret that I didn't start as a kid pounding nails. I'm sure this would add credibility. I have all the respect for you guys that are on roofs every day. We'll see how it goes. Talk to ya soon

Do you have alot of experience truely inspecting your roofs? If you are not comfortable with this process, It might be a wise decision to hire and experience roofer to QC your liabilities part or full time (at least 15 yrs exp). This will keep your contractors honest. It is your company, your liability....protect your interest as much as possible.

Robby the Roofer Said: Do you have alot of experience truely inspecting your roofs? If you are not comfortable with this process, It might be a wise decision to hire and experience roofer to QC your liabilities part or full time (at least 15 yrs exp). This will keep your contractors honest. It is your company, your liability....protect your interest as much as possible.

I feel that I'm competant in determining wether a roof is hail/wind damaged. I know there are men with much more experience than I have. That being said, I am confident in the crews abilities I work with, and their ability to restore a storm damaged roof. I do tend to agree with having a right hand man (one with lots of years and experience under his belt), the question becomes, can I afford such an employee?

These are all the points that are going through my head. I want to make sure I address them before I rish my financial future. I'm not interested in doing substandard work just to make a buck. Robby, in your opinion, does it take 15 years experience to really get a handle on doing it right? I'm not doubting you just curious.

Thanks again

I have been on a roof since before I was 5 years old with my dad. Been at it for over 53 years now and there are still things I learn every day. It depends on what you are looking for, and how you look. Things are changing in a hurry now a days too. Back in the day, it was tar and gravel build-up rrofing and mostly 3-1's Slate too, but that has always been a small percentage.

Insurance has changed a lot in the last decade too. good luck.

Hey, don't forget that you don't get any money until the whole roof has been paid for too. Collections can be a bitch!

Your a "stand-up guy and want to do things right"....That may be a true statement in your mind..... However; You've never "swung a hammer" and intend to subcontract the work you happen to sell, to a more qualified contractor? Hmmmm...... A more ethical and wiser recipe for success, may be to "partner-up" with an individual with some actual technical knowledge...I know most small type partnerships have a trendency for failure, in this case however, in you situation, (lacking any technical experience), it could very-well turn out be a win-win for a couple of guys that require each other's skills....Or get out & swing a hammer a bit, to get more of a handle on it. JMHO

Your state must be very lax on contractor qualifications to obtain a license....How can you get a contractor's license with no experience?....Unless of course there are no requirements...or the state lacks any contractor licensing, and your simply refering to a local municipality busines license?

TomB thanks for the response and all are valid points that I don't take lightly. My idea was to combine my life long sales and customer service skills with my roofing crews expertise to make a win/win. Is that flawed logic? I could see the dilema if I were going to roof these jobs myself but this isnt the case. I do like the idea of finding a field manager of sorts. I think that is sage advice. I don't know about contractor licensing in other states but here, you have to pass a 2 hour test on code and have three refereneces from people you have worked for/with in the field of choice. Then its a matter of being passed by the board and setting up the company with proper insurance and such.

Old School; I get understand the experience part (wish I had it) but I'll be pushing up daisies in 53 years! At least I hope so. If I do this, I will do the best I can to make up for lost time. I am a ravenous reader and while know that doesn't replace real world roof time, I hope it can help me identify pitfalls before they ocur. I will also spend time with my crews to get more practical experience. What I do know is that I am a hand shake kind of guy and no amount of money will change that.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the advice. I'll keep you posted.

How much margin is the company you now work for make on an average insurance job in your area? Can you afford to run an above board operation on this margin? Remember that your 2 subcontractors will probably only do 3-4 roofs a week each at best if they are only working for you. If they are established and do good work, they probably have work coming there way already. If your present company is a large nation wide company, they may be happy to net $100.00 profit from each sale. Can you afford to operate and do the same with your overhead burden? Just some random thoughts. Wishing you all the luck.

Well, my current employer is not a nationwide company but we do have offices in a couple different locations. We currently do 15-20 roof replacements a month in my area. off the cuff, I'd say the average job here (lets say 20 squares, one layer off and replace with a 30 year dm) brings typically about $6k. Most crews here will work for about $50-$60 a square which includes dump fees. Even adding liberally for insurance, advertising, etc. I think things look pretty good. As a salesman, a job like this will pay me about $400-500 bucks which isnt bad until you figure that I am also a 1099 salesman. I pay my own taxes and insurance. On top of that, I wait for a good chunk of the money to show up.

15 yrs may not say it all, but what have you done in the 15 years makes a big difference.

1. Ran crews for over 5 years straight, and worked with many good and bad roofers.....Have a good idea what workwes to watch out for 2. Got tired of running crews and did new contruction roof as a solo man...Saw all the short cuts and code violations (mostly contractors violations) 3. And then three years as a repair tech....saw how badly 1-5 yr old roofs were installed 4. last three yrs as QC for a large firm, through my career, got to see a lot of different things and learned many types of roofs

This would be a person ideal to "partner up with" or hire.

NO...not trying to find a job, just saying...anyways still healing from my major knee reconstruction.

---I have a friend who is a good salesman. He also had about 5 years of roofing experience, mostly basic residential. He partnered with a BUR foreman who ran the crew. He did all the paperwork and foreman and crew did all the roofing. They got along well which is a must! Today he is easily a millionaire several times over. The foreman is retired and very well off. I believe they both made over 10k/ month for over 20 years. He stayed within his expertise with mostly residential and small commercial. Roofing 20 years and seldom any problems adds up to some real money ---The main issue I see is your relationship with whatever crew you use. Everyone needs to be on the same page as far as expectations and pay. ---I would strongly recommend you work with the crew as a laborer 1-2 days a week. Get the feel for roofing and what goes on. Then learn installation...and increase your knowledge bit by bit. What you will learn is the time and headaches involved with the many issues that come up regularly. Then when you bid those headaches you know what it takes to get the job done. We call them nuisance issues. Here is a short list that others could add to: 1) roof pitch...steep...how steep...2)low-slope...how low...comp or torch? or ? 3) access...driveway too steep for delivery?...no driveway at all...4) ground protection & issues...beautiful new deck right under a 12/12 tear off?...prized roses?...we did a tear off over a greenhouse with lots of glass...5) patio roof bolted into roofdeck...always a headache...remove supports & jack up patio or flash existing or black mammy existing and go back when it leaks...5) bad brick chimneys that leach and then make you look like a bad roofer...always better to discuss up front and recommend proper repairs NOW rather then 2 years from now when it leaks. 6) all kinds of wood repair, rot, ants, termites, you name it...bees...Tree branches and bushes laying on a leaky roof is almost a sure sign of major bugs. You need permission to prune people's trees and some people would rather not prune and keep their ants. A nuisance issue is a problem that makes the job take more time than normal. That adds to the cost. I have learned the hard way over many years that I want to get paid for solving those problems and the only way to get paid is to recognize them BEFORE I bid the job. ---Starting out you want to keep the crew busy. That will take most of your time. But there will still be time to work on the crew at least part time. Besides you will lower overhead by moving the job along. As for me I work on the roof at least 50% of every job. I set the pace. When I am tearing off a roof in a cloud of dust everyone else is moving at top speed. I only have one speed and that is as fast as I can go. Everyone else either moves just as fast or wonders how I can do things 2x as fast as they can. They catch on quick. That was the way I was trained and it is normal to me. The purpose of learning how to install is to lesson your dependancy upon someone else. Things change...people come and go...whatever...but sooner or later you will need to work on the roof or train someone else. Obviously you will make more money by having others work for you. But still there are times when you may need to fill in. Versatility is the key that gives you more options. ---One other point that is unclear to me. You mention the delay in pay. Would that also be true as a contractor getting paid by the insurance company? That could be a problem as crews must be paid weekly. If you get paid in 60 days you need the cashflow to pay others while waiting for an insurance company to settle. I don't do insurance work so I don't know. ---Good luck...I have always liked roofing. Outdoors...I like physical work...often great views...my own boss...set own hours...jobs change often so always moving on... Lanny

Robby, Thank you. I will look for someone that has the qualifications you list. Sorry to hear about the knee, hope its coming along well. Lane, Thank you too. I think you guys are exactly right as far finding an experienced roofer to oversee field operations. I will make this happen. I'm also a fan of being on the roof working for a while. This will help me to make good decisions in the future as well as lend credibility to the crews. To answer your question about pay, I guess I just want to be in control of the process. At least as much of it as I can. Currently, my employer takes 15% of the top of the job then pays me 40% of the profit after that. I don't know if that's standard in the industry or if its good or bad. I've had situations where final payment has been held by the homeowner (on insurance jobs) until regional has been by to inspect the job. Well, regional in my town is understaffed and under-funded and inspections can sometimes be two to three weeks after completion of the job. Then, if there are any corrections to be made, other is the repair and the re inspect. You see what I'm getting at? Its not so much the process,I don't like, its the percentages. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing anything out of spite towards my company, I just think I can do it just as well if not better myself, have the pride of ownership of a company that people respect and be more profitable in the process. Anyway, Thank you all again for your professional insight. I really respect your opinions.

Go hail!

do you have contact info?

Robby the Roofer Said: Do you have alot of experience truely inspecting your roofs? If you are not comfortable with this process, It might be a wise decision to hire and experience roofer to QC your liabilities part or full time (at least 15 yrs exp). This will keep your contractors honest. It is your company, your liability....protect your interest as much as possible.

Basically,along the lines of what I was thinking. How do you know it`s good work vs. work that looks good from the street ? It`s very important to understand the mechanics of the work you are selling workers can learn to resent you when you don`t have experience in their field,and will oftentimes try to cut you out of the action,because they don`t understand the importance of the work that you do

I understand that and it makes sense. This is another reason to look for a field manager.

Thank you