Hand Nailing Shingles

RS "but no-one expects much out of an asphalt roof down here."

That's an extensive poll you conducted, or reference I presume?>>>

Does it make for a better job?

Yes, I can't see how anyone can argue that. Better control of placement and depth. I don't require my guys to hand nail. I think it takes a bigger toll on your body over time. I only hand nail but anymore I cannot swing a hammer all day like I used to. My arms get numb at night and my joints ache too damned badly. It is a dying art, too many guys who grew up with a gun. I make sure new guys learn with a hammer before they get to use a gun. But this is not saying that you can not get a perfectly good roof with a gun. It just requires that the applicators are paying attention to the pressure on the compressor and how they are applying them. In my opinion when you hire subs or pay piece work you will run into problems because speed determines the paycheck more than quality does.

In general, how much slower is hand nailing than using a gun?

I think that depends on the hand nailer. A fast hand nailer can keep up with an average gunner especially on the more cut up roofs but a fast gunner will beat a fast nailer. I can't say how much slower it is.

Are their many/any S.O.B.'s hand nailing shingles?

Not that I see in the Midwest. It is all guns and speed. We just came in from a blowoff repair that was gunned high. They will continue to blow off this house every time we get a big wind until it's reroofed in the future.

How difficult do you think it would be to sell the idea of paying more to have a roof installed with hand nails?

Shouldn't be too difficult if you can sell. It is more difficult to find the skilled nailers. But like I said before, there is no reason that you can't get consistently good roofs done with guns and it takes less of a toll on the body.>>>

Air has its place, but i think a roofer should start out hand nailing and get good at that before picking a gun up.i have hand nailed for over thirty years and never had a problem with my roofs ,i live in wyoming,where we are famous for our wind. my 2 cents is hand nailing gives you a better roof.>>>

Slater I understand your view point on a certain level. In another forum there is a discussion about our rapid-fire lifestyles, we are squandering our most valuable resource: "the capacity for deep, sustained, perceptive attention-- , where you might be missing it....wisedom , cultural progress . My take on your level of roofing ..is centered around the " deep sustained perceptive attention " On this level I understand you. I know in the past we have been at loggerheads . I'm not sure that will change . With a new perception of The Real Slater . Understanding comes in different ways and patience is the key. Jed if you don't know , Real Slater makes statements from a single perspective. The pole was a pole and survey of one.>>>

Way to go! GAK I agree with T-Lock also.>>>

egg, I never seem to be as articulate and poetic as you always are. So I thought I'd try to put it to rhyme.

There was a hand nailer in the hood With practice he got really good. When young he would put on show. As he aged he got rally slow. Now he just wishes he could.

:blush:>>>

jed, i'm only talking about the tri county area where i live. palm beach, broward and dade county. there is not much asphalt down here. i wasn't trying to talk down about shingles again, just stating fact. i'm from mi and i remember how much people think of shingles when you're in an area covered in mostly asphalt. people actually expected 30yr shingles to last 30yrs! i'm just saying as someone who installs roofs every day down here that i have never met anyone here with those same expectations out of an asphalt roof. folks here are used to a ten to fifteen year lifespan out of asphalt based on experience. they don't feel ripped off though, everyone here knows asphalt is the cheapest, most temporary roof allowed by code here. probably not everyone but like i said, the majority.

ciak, i hate to even respond to you. looks like we still can't get along. i'm not going to argue with you cause there's no point. i just finished a slate roof in tampa and i got a chance to look around and talk to neighbors. i can see how you don't see my point of view. tampa reminded me and my partner of mi, asphalt everywhere! and i talked to a few people who are about to re-roof, a couple were going shingle and a couple going metal. both were convinced of everything they were being sold. i didn't even attempt to discuss life-cycle costing cause it was obvious that was going to be impossible when there's beautiful homes all around them covered in asphalt. context ciak, take what i say into context. the average roof-replacement in my area is 800-900 per square. these folks don't shop for shingles and i'm not too far off convincing them to go permanent. i have no expectations of ever doing another slate roof in tampa, didn't even see very many clay roofs! i salvaged 80yr old slate from a home in palm beach for that job and the homeowner lives here. you can talk all the crap you want about slate and me but i'm still installing slate every day and my work is flawless. someone like yourself should respect quality craftsmenship but we all know that has nothing to do with production.btw tampa is cold as #%&*!>>>

RS, That was just a cold snap you ran into. I was down there for the holidays and just got back, we spent xmas eve paddling in the gulf. Wish I had of known you were there, we could have knocked back a cold one together.>>>

Real Slater I've gained an understanding of your perspective . It is a good one . One of the things I admire about you is the quality and concentration. An in depth perception of your craft . I don't necessarily attribute craft to shingles. I does deserve that title at times in defence . I can understand why you hate to reply to my post. It is not everyday I get threats that someone is going to come to my office and drag my arse out and well you know what shock and awe imagination you thought you were going to do in front of my family......... I can only guess as to why you reacted with such hostility . Was it when I turned the light on you not having a Roofing lic. I was only trying to protect you . I hope you have fixed that . I'm a really patience guy . I think I've had a real break through concerning .. your perspective . That is cool to me . So maybe you don't have to be so aggravated . Get over it man. Slater don't be such a hater. That supposed to be humor , in case I'm not being clear again. Just being square with ya.>>>

cough cough so ahh what be dooh problems. :S :S>>>

Just a hand nailer here. :cheer:>>>

I use a Senco stapler for installing battens and lath. Have never nailed a tile on with a gun. I've seen pictures of people doing it but the likelyhood of creating stress cracks makes me avoid even trying it. I like Stanley anti-vibe.>>>

Wywoody What is anti-vibe ? Back in the day and still going I have seen installs with a gun on cement tiles. worked out great . The gun as opposed the hammer set the nail in safer straighter and without cracking or touching the tile. The hammer would break loose the battens if to bouncy. The battens were installed over no decking and thermal layer . When using the gun you were assured a good grip and no splits.>>>

The anti-vibe is a steel hammer supposed to reduce carpel tunnel. http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?TYPE=CATEGORY&CATEGORY=FRAMING+HAMMERS&PAGENUMBER=1&VIEW=ThumbView

I have found that the nailability of some kinds of tile variable. It is affected by the cure time and if it gets too old, the likelyhood of getting splitting or fractures can increase. An experienced tiler will be able to assess and adjust to the tile more by hand nailing than he would with a gun.>>>

I been hand bangin since 1988 " Good Year" thats my nickname round here, I believe a good hand nailer makes for a good gunner! gotta crawl before ya walk! no what i mean vern!!!!! >>>