Find leaks / Water Testing Procedures ?

tinner666 Said: I reread the original question. My earlier response was based on my reading it as 2 plies of shingles. Still, shingles on 2/12 over 2 plies of 15 felt arent going to fare well either.

[/quote 2/12 over 2 plies of 15 was the norm around here for 3-4 maybe more decades and still continues today . It is a proven system that has functioned in a properly installed roofing system . If the system is installed properly no leaks for 20 - 25 yrs . There may be some maintenance a tab blown off here and there . I have used the S/A' s I want Jet to back up his " no " Manufacture warranty issue . Pretty simple . I'm suspicious the S/A's are used to cover up otherwise poor workmanship.>>>

We've run into situations like this before on this board.

1. Some regional areas have specifications that trump all others. Florida is the kind of place where that type of trump is as likely to occur as any. Florida guys have a decided tendency to assume whatever is required in their state is some kind of universal law applicable to everywhere else in the roofing plane of existence. With all due respect, this is not the case.

2. It is not a matter of conjecture; manufacturers of most if not all shingles available to me ALLOW and warrantee their shingles on applications for pitches down to 2/12. Nothing more need be said. It is just a fact. IN GENERAL, without intending to oversimplify, code defers to manufacturer specs for application and therefore, in general, manuf. specs become de facto CODE.

3. Applying shingles at that pitch is not the best idea, but I have roofs of long-standing service that are irrefutable proof that it works. Let me just emphasize: IN MY CLIMATE ZONE. I would be extremely reluctant to push any limits when ice dams are a factor.

4. The guy, going by the moniker of 'anotherguy', is in a "Desert region." (Hello????)

5. Don't you just love it when somebody poses something on the forum and then neglects to come back and respond to any of the replies?

6. This is important. Where I work, we have to have a Class A fire rating on all roof coverings. At 2/12 you don't get that with mineral surface cap sheets without having to go to extra lengths. You cannot mop down or torch down your same old favorite deal and meet that Class A requirement at that pitch. 2/12 to 4/12 (in fact, .5/12 to 4/12) is a very strange zone, let me tell you. Sermon ended.>>>

It is not a requirement here either. A lot of guys sell it that is for sure . It didn't really start to pick up steam till a couple years back when there was a real paranoia about second water barriers. 30 is an accepted product for the second water barrier here in my county. Just more from my ole pal Jet . He may have inhaled to many stoogies . S/A may be a good idea not a requirement. Unless someone can show me otherwise. That is the challenge. Where is that requirement and where is the manufacture non- warranty statements ?>>>

I have found that H/O's will decide their roofing decision based on budget, the number of years they plan to live in the house, around here how long they plan on living period the climate and the design of their house . I'm still challenging Jet to show where in the manufacture warranty he can substantiate his claim . I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if it can be shown to me . Come on Jet cough it up " ole pal . " ;) ;) B)>>>

CIAK Said: Jet I Missed that in the manufacture warranty . Im still looking and it would be helpful if you could reply with where that is in the manufacture warranty. Stated in writhing by the manufacture. S/A felts though they look like a great product have not faced the test of real life climate conditions. They havent been around that long to really test them IMO

Jeez.......mister "go to here" can't find the goods now? Try this place, www.tamko.com and look under the "Roof Deck". Then go over to No. 6 "Low Slope Application". Hope this clears it up for 'ya.......

JET>>>

JET Said:

craftesman Said: what are shingles doing on a 2-12 in the first place??????

Ditto.......shingle roofs under 4/12 pitch have no warranty from the mfg. without a peel and stick membrane covering the wood deck. Tear off and replace with single-ply membrane.

JET

Jed Said:

CIAK Said: Jet I Missed that in the manufacture warranty . Im still looking and it would be helpful if you could reply with where that is in the manufacture warranty. Stated in writhing by the manufacture. S/A felts though they look like a great product have not faced the test of real life climate conditions. They havent been around that long to really test them IMO

We first used them back in 93 in CT. Given your ineptitude with language I have to assume you are numerically challenged too, so that would be about 16 yrs ago (only trying to help)......not a bad test for a product that is protected from the elements with two layers of asphalt, adhered and nailed to a solid wood deck and whose lower edge is secured with nails or drip edge. What do you forsee happening that would warrant further time tests exactly?

So now that Jet has conceded his original statement was incorrect, ciak..........do you have the the wherewithall to answer the question put to you?>>>

CIAK Said:

JET Said:

craftesman Said: what are shingles doing on a 2-12 in the first place??????

Ditto.......shingle roofs under 4/12 pitch have no warranty from the mfg. without a peel and stick membrane covering the wood deck. Tear off and replace with single-ply membrane.

JET

And your point Jet ??? 6. LOW SLOPE APPLICATION On pitches 2 in. per foot to 4 in. per foot cover the deck with two layers of asphalt saturated felt. Begin by applying the felt in a 19 in. wide strip along the eaves and overhanging the drip edge by 1/4 to 3/4 in. Place a full 36 in. wide sheet over the 19 in. wide starter piece, completely overlapping it. All succeeding courses will be positioned to overlap the preceding course by 19 in. If winter temperatures average 25°F or less, thoroughly cement the felts to each other with TAM-PRO or TAMKO Plastic Roof Cement from eaves and rakes to a point of a least 24 in. inside the interior wall line of the building.

You didn't finish the paragraph.........."TAMKO's Moisture Grard Plus self-adhering waterproofing underlayment may be used in lieu of the cemented felts"

I guess my "point" is that no shingle roofer I've seen does anything NEAR this requirement for low slope shingle applications. When the roof fails.....and it will, the roofer (if he's still in business) will direct the customer to the mfg. for a solution.

JET>>>

:angry: :S Ok, guys, this pissin contest can stop. Declare yourselves winners, losers, whatever, but this back and forth isn't winning friends and influencing people. So... can... we... move... on? :(>>>

Yeah pgriz your right I aplogize to all the RCS'ers. I deleted that last reply. mayacopa mayacopa .Thanks Paul . I admit I got out there. Jets a good fellow . B) ;) ;) :laugh:>>>

Whatever dude..... I ask a civil question about a very expansive statement that I think ought to be validated. We can be a forum where purely subjective statements are made, not questioned by anyone, and consequently considered credible. Fine with me.

Noddy to Big Ears. ........."No really, I read it on the RCS"

Big Ears to Noddy. ........."Oh, I wouldn't believe anything those guys say, most of them don't know what they're talking about"

EDIT: "but this back and forth isn't winning friends and influencing people"

What we say, discuss, or argue about may very well be "influential" >>>

IMO the main reason we come here is to discuss roofing issues, not argue. Some of the posters (one in particular) here don't have a REAL job so the only thing they can offer is attitude which has gotten very old over the past few months. I always consider the source.

JET>>>

What is mayacopa? You don't mean mea culpa. do you?

I suggest getting English anchored down before you tackle Latin.

Quo usque tandem abutere patientia nostra?

.>>>

Quo usque tandem abutere patientia nostra? Until enough rope is provided I reckon...>>>

Measure for Measure Miscreant, This sounds Polish to me .

Ty ani ciepła, uczucia, kończyn, ani piękna Aby twoje bogactwa przyjemne. Google for lanuage tools ;) ;) A hint I know it's Polish to you too . :laugh: :laugh: What a tool !!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: B) B) My question back to you Miscreant , quamdiu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? I won't try to hide behind a mask of congeniality . I'll translate for you ..........."For how long will that madness of yours mock us? To what end will your unbridled effrontery toss itself about?" I'm being attacked here by a stupid dog with sunglasses of all things . I'm willing to let it rest . I'll let the dogs have the table scraps . B) B) . I admitted to taking something a little to far . I was right in my assessment of Jets comment . End of story. I'm moving on.>>>