Done With this topic

Hello Everyone. I am done talking about this issue.>>>

If I understand your post correctly .What you are asking is . After you get in an accident, you buy coverage , arguing for repairs because you now have the coverage .?? Is this it ? B) ;) ;) B)>>>

Years ago on this forum we had a similar issue proposed that involved forensic discovery and differentiation between real and faked hail damage. That one was interesting. They were measuring and mapping and analyzing the roof wounds and were able to show the difference between natural hail damage and that caused by a human with limited patience and a ball peen hammer. That's one thing; what you're asking is another.

Your current issue (it seems to me) needs to run a couple of gauntlets. If someone were interested in the phenomenon for the sake of pure science, then there would have to be an examination of accumulated sediment and weathering on a previously stressed surface and a comparison of that with a freshly stressed surface. Surely this must be possible for a legitimate and honest engineering firm to accomplish. Maybe that's what they did and then again maybe they are just forcing someone else to prove otherwise, taking the legal viewpoint that makes us all cynical: 'how much is it worth to you to be right?' I couldn't say, but I do know that if the engineering firm makes an analysis, its reputation has to stand on its ability to document the criterion it uses to reach its conclusions and the results of its inspections and analysis as they relate to the criterion or else it is no more than subjective opinion or complicity in a stalling tactic. If you find an axe stuck in a tree, that's new hail. If you find a tree growing around an axe, that is old hail. I have no doubt they can verify post-stress weathering if they had a mind to. If they were really dialed into the science of it, I would bet they could even determine the approximate date of the hail damage based on degree of weathering. But I doubt if they have actually developed any such methodology or done any such thing. jmho.>>>

John, Why the emphasis on ALLSTATE? From your experience as an underwriter, are they any better or any worse than the others?>>>

John Have you looked at the report John ? Because you have been in the insurance industry for as long as you have Weren't you considering being a risk manager ? Which of course requires that you understand claims handling. Now , your agent licensing you scored a 90%. Then of course you got an independent adjuster 520 license by paying $55 to state of FL. Are you still planning on obtaining AIC designation and getting a legal studies degree. ? Very admirable endeavor . Your desire once was to work for a lawyer suing/defending . So now I need to ask ," was this a leading question ?" Are you testing us or ready to teach us about Hail ? I am very curious . Also grateful you are here . Stick around . B) ;) B)>>>

take this how you want. the roofing trade has been destroyed,and replaced by your employer.it is now an insurance fraud industry.This opinion is gathered from working as A salesman myself for A "national"co.what A flim flam skim scam that IS!!! when you take someone unskilled at roofing,and then pit them against A seasoned adjuster,(or even A newb thats bright and well trained)this is what happens. first, you didn't tell us whether the present damage went to the mat or if it just knocked off the granules. second,with the H/O uninsured it's A moot point. third,go back next year and sell them A roof after the next storm.they're gonna get one within the next few years. for the record,Allstate would have covered the roof had the H/O been timed to coverage. your in Huntsville if my memory serves me right.they had A storm early april. you aren't dealing with Wayne Sessions or Eddie Martinez are you?from Allstate.if so drop it.they are good.they know what they are doing. Wayne, like all real roofers, and seasoned adjusters can walk on A roof and tell you whether you've mechanically altered the shingle,hand torn it or bent it,scuffed it,pulled them from the nails,or placed debris under it to catch the claim. also each state has an ins. commission.your best bet is to call them and find out what the timeline for previous damage is.they will let you know whether it's 2 yearswhich allstae has,and 3 for farmers etc. etc. suggestion,get away from the national co's. that go all over the place they claim to not be storm chasers,yet go to their offices from previous years.they are not there.they maintain skeleton crews to close out deals and finish jobs. and sometimes the storms overlap from year to year. work for A true local.they won't mismanage your money.the office won't be flooded with junkies,liars and thieves and they will fire your ass for selling anything less than A damaged roof. the big co's thrive on margainal damage,meaning not quite ruined but lets wear down the adjusters,lie to the homeowner,and if that don't work damage it.yes they do it. then they beat them down on the exactimate.there's ways to do that. biggest moral error I've made in my life was to work for A "national" co. I hope God don't send me to HELL for that. homeowners are idiots if they choose someone from out of town.that wants every cent of the deductible,every fraction for the upgrade,and then they truly do not have A repair crew that WILL do the repair.cause they got some manufacturers,warranty. look at what some big manufacturers did with the claims folks filed for roofs.they desqualified them for the wrong nail. every supply or Lowes or H/D has A generic galv 1 1/4.the supplier throws them on the truck and now manufacturers say it's the wrong nail. with the duration from O/C I can tell you this from bein in this trade for too long,the solid seal from end to continuous end of the layered roof is A problem.with water that floods between joints it travels and settles at it's lowest point.the nail head,your nail will 99%of the time have A recessed imbeddment.with out the ability to weep the water away anything less than stainless will erode. I know times are tough.I've not worked for awhile now.but man,to know that I'm not out hammering H/O's and adjusters feels good. look into A local guy,with all your leads provided,smaller percentage and support.support from someone that will assist you,not badger you and turn you into A drone for A company thats gonna win your money in the end.

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We used to do quite a bit of work for Allstate claims back in the early nineties. At the time they were a great company to work with, they bought a lot of work for us. Then regional management changed and our work load dried up from Allstate. You may want to press the issue with higher level management at Allstate and get past the adjuster. Any records of when a call was placed for an adjuster to inspect and when they actually inspected may help too. If you have complaints about the adjuster, go to management...worked for us.

SC>>>

The Engineering firm is the last word for the insurance company . Oxidation is the key for the Old hail compared to new . NOA weather is the key for timing and date of the hail storm .>>>

As I read it they didn't have insurnace when the Hail hit . B) ;) B) " i dunno ">>>

insprojohn Said: So it may be better to wait until the next hailstorm and then it will get bought.

Fascinating discussion. btw, are these roof settlements getting reduced for years of use?>>>

John, You should probably get ahold of the inhouse supervisor and try explaining to him that the roof is damaged -- the point you can agree on --- What is open is the point of the old vs the new damage in which 3 months should be enough for the new to oxidize enough to not be able to tell the difference - furthermore they should have evaluated the risk of insuring the roof when the homeowner bought the policy -- the roof should have been excluded from the contract with the insurance company which it was not - and any interior damage reulting from the roof- (Catch 22-- policy is worthless)so this is your other option to file or threaten suit against the insurer which the homeownner has to initiate--- this is why i say threaten or bluff - also let them know and the homeowner know if their roof is damaged and it is documented in the file any damage inside of home from the result of the roof can be denied, in the future until the roof is repaied. (Catch 22-- policy is worthless)File a complaint with the bbb and correct state department if all else fails.

If you can even get a minimum roof repair like a shingle or 2 you can then fight unrepairable do to existing damage - write up a repair order minimum if you have to send it to them to get ok'd then supplement entire roof with unrepairable.

What most fail to realize is the scam with insurance - that is the insurance companies scamming -- teamed up with the banks to borrow money to homeowners. since most homeowners would not take loanns from banks back in the day the insurance companies stepped in and started improving properties and borrowing money from the banks to lend to the homeowners - now the policies are written to the point of any damage no matter how minor can and will be paid for by the insurance company and it is good business for them as long as the homeowners can pay the premiums they have nothing to loose and in fact every claim that is approved the more oppertunity the insurance company has to make profit by raising rates.

I can tell you first hand that it really does not matter what caused the damage to a property if it is insured it can be covered the way policies are written -- even mechanical damage it is still damage file it under vandelism - taken far enough you could even get old rotted siding -- roofing covered that really has no source other than normal wear it is a battle but in the legal aspect homeowners buy insurance for one reason that is to protect their property -- if their siding or roofing wear out it is damaged - In front of a judge you could very easily argue that it is the insurance problem if they insure a property and do not keep up on inspections every year they are required to audit policies and if they do not audit them accurately it is the insurance companies problem for continuing coverage--

I have found that if a customer takes the claim all the way in the appeal process it is eventually approved - .>>>

Here is an example -- homeowner sets his barbecue too close to his home and melts his siding -- Should insurance cover it? how about siding no longer being made and reasonable match? Well the insurance should cover it it was not intentional on homeowners behalf it was an accident.

How about lawnmower spits a rock into siding / window? Again yes it should get covered it was an accident.

How about a storm chaser making marks in the roof to simulate hail damage? yes it is vandelism

If a roof is old enough it will leak and cause damage and wind will blow the shingles away and if you walk on it they will break and an inexperienced homeowner will walk on his own roof and damage it on accident so will the adjusters.

Damage is damage.>>>

so the way policies are written if you wait long enough you will not have to worry about anything the insurance companies will come out and fix it as long as we pay our premiums -- pretty soon they will have automatic withdrawl from our accounts and we will not have any decisions to make except to call them and complain when something does not look right. so anyone looking for a job might as well start looking in the insurance or government field first -- all other jobs at this point will be a 9-5 automatic withdrawl in 20 more years.>>>

Egg,

Funny thing is they should be but are not they pay full replacement cost.>>>

Took all his posts and left. We're all scared of our shadows anymore.>>>