Do you pay your employees enough?

Refer to Tom's message, to wit: "That's another subject your talking about..... ">>>

I give them TWO Seperate raises! The first one is daily! Off their arse and on their feet. Then theirs the occasional two story job! lol>>>

Based on the % you guys are using, it would almost be impossible to pay someone at that level unless there was a level playing field. With guys cutting prices to the bone there is no room for higher pay. You cant compare roofing to say a big factory, If a guy slacks off there the machine still runs spitting out the product at basically the same production. Now if you employee slacks off you lose squares installed/less money made that day and thus lose money because your still paying him. Our machines are our employees and they brake down almost everyday. I always paid the good ones well, and the slackers who showed no sign of improvement stayed were they were pay wise. My motto was you make me money I'll make you money. I can't give what you don't make. I can make $1000.00 a day clear by my self. I have yet to have an employee even come close to that. If they would ,I'd pay them.>>>

In 1983 a roofer around here made 8-10/hour with no benefits of any kind.

Today they have health insurance, 401K, bonus, other perks, and make 15-25/hour

Back then a car had few amenities, today even the most basic car has amenities than a lot of homes didn't have 30 yrs ago.

Homes today are equiped with everything, fine furnishings, extravagent electronics, 70/month cable bills etc.

back then, most families at at home, today few do.

government has continued to take a larger chunk of our pay, not only through payroll taxes, but taxes on many of of the things we use and do every day.

I contend that it is not the workplace that is the problem, but a government drunk on power and money, coupled with a populace that lives higher than they are willing to work for, in many cases.>>>

Yeah Mike. Mostly about the theft of our money by the powers that be in the government! When a 2009 "dollar" is worth about 4 cents compared to a 1967 dollar, someone should be brought to justice for the theft of the other 96 cents. That makes Madoff look like a candy theif!>>>

Mike; What you say is all well and good...I was attempting to directly reply to Roof Doc's question.... The bottom line is that roofers,(construction craftsmen in general), have slid waaaayyyy down the income/"good-life" scale in the last 20+ years....

My very first roofing position was on a tear-off crew in 1977, after leaving the local "big company job".....I started at $ 8/hr...In less than a years time I had graduated to kettleman, on to 2nd man and $ 11/hr, (which was pretty-much top pay in those days).....Taking all things in perspective, (ie, housing, vehicles...general cost of living), by my calculations, in order to maintain the same lifestyle, that same roofer ought to be making somewhere in the vicinity of $ 50/hr. today.....

To back that up, I have personal friends that decided to go the civil service route and do make $100k+/year, ($ 50/hr.). In 77'-78'; When I was making $11/hr, my buddies where making 1/2-3/4 that at their civil service jobs....It's all topsey/turvey from yester-year....>>>

All great answers and questions. Jed, I agree in '83 minimum wage was $3.35/hr. $15 was BIG change. Prigz hit the nail on the head. My boys (roofers) and many others I know, still today, have no idea how much money they waste. I hear it all the time, I'm broke bitchin' about child support. We were on the books, the kids got taken care of but so many work off the books, the kids aren't even on the page. In '83 I was a single mother making $4.25/hr, no child support. When I got paid I filled my car up with gas, bought cigarettes and took my daughter for Pizza every Friday. Everything else went to supporting us. NO special sheets for her bed, no phone & tv for her room. Lucky I had my $10.00 B & W with rabbit ears. My boys would complain about the Boss having the nice truck and house and so on. He didn't smoke, drink and waste money, he invested, was not frivilous. Makes a big difference. My husband worked for a short time with the Brothers from the Burg, payday went to #1 new bling #2 bag o dope #3 new women, come Monday borrowing change for lunch.

Enough of that....you can't compare wages today. To us elders it sounds like good $$$ but seriously the cost of living varing around the country is mind boggling. My house was 88K in '88, very modest home in comparision today. My mortgage comfortable with taxes & ins. included. My daughter pays the same amount for a 2 bedroom trailer renting. Young people, honestly working and saving are still having a hard time for sure. Even the college educated are struggling. They all have the same dream, they all think they can manage. BUT, a few of us know what you figure on paper is not the true reality. It comes from within, the drive the yearning. Easier said than done. PC>>>

PC; I agree...moslty...we're just spouting two different topics in one here.....There were the same idiots back then as there are now......I was sticking with the wages compared to expenses these days, as compared to years past.....It's true; If your savvy and make wise decisions you'll make out....If your wastefull and stupid, you won't ever get ahead, no matter how much you made....However, TODAY, the cards are most definitely stacked against the "worker-bee"....>>>

In 1977 I was a front end loader operator at $5.75 an hour. Minimum wage was $3.50 an hour. Bought a house for $27,500 with a 10%downpayment of $2750.00.

The downpayment cost me about 478 hours of labour at $5.75 an hour or about 772 hours at minimum wage of $3.50 an hour.

In 2009 the same house costs about $315,000 with a downpayment of $31,500.

If the $31,500 downpayment costs 478 hours of labour for a machine operator in 2009 he should be making $65.90 an hour and 772 hours at minimum wage should be $40.80 an hour.

Minumum wage is now $8.00 an hour and a front end loader operator would be lucky to make $25.00 an hour (actual rate around $21.76 an hour)>>>

BINGO!!! Congratulations seen-it-all. That was the point I was trying to make. Labor in America today is being taken advantage of by American Corporations. I own an American Corporation. I would pay more it I could still remain competitive. Until labor across the board starts demanding higher wages things will remain grim. Labor may have to become organized to accomplish this.

>>>

What do I win? :)

In 1975 in Calgary Alberta I paid 30 cents an imp. gallon for gas which now is 4.5 litres. I was making $3.93 an hour as a group #3 machine operator for CP Rail. To fill my 20 gallon tank cost me $6.00 or about 1.5 hours labour.

Today I filled up and it cost $1.129 a litre or about $5.08 an imp. gallon. My 20 gallon fill cost me $101.61. At the old 1975 labour to fill ratio of 1.5 hours labour I should now make $67.74 an hour.

Interesting to note that the $67.74 per hour is very close to the amount of wage of $65.90 to pay for a downpayment on a 2009 home in the reply above.

Just a side note. In 1975 I could buy 39 chocolate bars at 10 cents each on my $3.93 per hour wage. In 1977 I could buy 38 chocolate bars at 15 cents each (the price went up) on my $5.75 per hour wage. If I went to the corner store today to buy 38 chocolate bars at $1.25 each plus 12% tax it would be $53.20.

Cigarette prices in 1975 were about $4.50 a carton of 200 or about 1.15 hours of labour at $3.93 per hour. Cigarette prices in 2009 were about $87.61 a carton of 200 or about 1.15 hours labour at $76.18 per hour.>>>

seen-it-all understands quite well. Organized labor? Don't agree with that.......Curbing the illegal worker onslaught would provide the quickest and most efficient results.....Don't the unions somewhat embrace the illegals? (Very generalized statement; I undestand)>>>

Mike, You say:- "I own an American Corporation. I would pay more it I could still remain competitive"

Are you not pricing your work on a 65% profit line? I don't see how you CAN be competitive with that kind of margin for profit.>>>

I think the correct answer to the question is double the poverty rate for a family of three. About $16,000 in 83 and $34,000 in 2008. I pay it (just barely).>>>

Hi Jed, that was Jeff that made that comment.

Jeff, how much of our paycheck did the government take back then? How much would a typical 1977 house cost today?

I still contend that it's not the wage that's the problem. Our wages are not keeping up with our tastes and desires, ie:, the credit crunch. Government is far outpacing our GDP growth with their own growth, taking even more purchasing power away from the worker. We don't need more organized unions, we need a revolution.>>>