City Inspector - Level The Playing Field?

Building permits .. sure .. they are very necessary in order to ensure that someone who really does know something about building looks at the work .. if it's substandard? .. Well, then lets tear it down and fix it right.

The fee has more to do with paying for the city/county administrative costs, than it does anything else .. surely you don't think cities and counties are turning a profit on the fees do you? .. If they did, no one would be building anything for the expense of it all.

People, by and large, aren't really very bright when it comes right down to building something, like say, a house addition for instance .. the city/county are there to be sure things are done right, according to tried and true engineering specs .. and to protect the homeowner from himself and his ego .. also to protect the homeowners neighbors from the homeowners ego.

We can rail all day long about the permitting process, whether it's fair or not and so on and so forth .. the bottom line here is how would you feel if your neighbor built a home addition, only to have it's roof come off in a 40 mph wind storm, and have it land on top of your house? .. or, not having the deck secured properly enough to keep poor old 280 pound aunt Bertha from falling through it at the Sunday family get-together ..

I could go on, but I'm fairly sure you get my point. I think this was part of the topic. Don't want to high-jack the thread.

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

Roofguy Said: The roof in question has gravel, meaning wed take off 250 lbs/SQR and put back on 125. Weight not a factor. There is no trapped moisture, in fact there is no insulation and a very solid concrete deck. Absolutely no legitimate reason to tear that roof off.

Cause for concern: 1. Removing the ballast would increase the possibility of membrane uplift and tear, and 2. There is ALWAYS trapped moisture;

Therefore, a tear off and new membrane would assure better attachment to the substrate.

Being for self-sufficiency and small government is a really hard concept to explain. You either get it and realize that you don't get to pick & choose where big government is ok, or you don't.

That's kinda how we got to the problem we have with Congress. Everyone thinks that all the congressmen are corrupt, except theirs.

tinner666 Said: I got tired of paying for building permits and my roofs, and the jacklegs roofs not being insoected.

What is there to inspect? If there are any defects, they are now covered up and the city sure can't vouch for poor workmanship. When you fill out the application for the permit, you are suppose to detail the scope of work. All they can do is take your word for it. But a public record is now established for the future when the property is sold or problems arise.

Some cities in N. Texas don't require a permit for roofing but most do. The City of Dallas requires a permit and the only "inspection" is proof of where you dumped the trash.

natty Said:

tinner666 Said: I got tired of paying for building permits and my roofs, and the jacklegs roofs not being insoected.

What is there to inspect? If there are any defects, they are now covered up and the city sure cant vouch for poor workmanship. When you fill out the application for the permit, you are suppose to detail the scope of work. All they can do is take your word for it. But a public record is now established for the future when the property is sold or problems arise. [quote]

You think a glance won't tell if new flashing was used? Valley shingles bobbed? pipe collars installed 50/50+-? Term flashing terminated correctly? Lift a shingle enough to determine the nail placement/pattern? Buckled shingles? Stagger 6"+-? Et-al?

Framing inspcetion checks for nail size, placement/pattern, subfloor layout, plywood placement, corner bracing, et-al.

I feel that if a 'roofer'?? put on the crap I see and immediately had to tear it off and do it again the same day, we'd start getting roofers and the jacklegs will leave. You want to know something? I inspect new roofs when asked. Some pass. Some have to be torn off and redone. I will call a spade a spade. I make my living repairing roofs, same as Chuck. Jacklegs make me money, BUT it's ALL at the Homeowner's expense, which really galls me to no end. Last month, it was a $35,000.00 copper roof. The homeowner wasn't too happy to say the least.

:( OK, rant over. If we have to pay the fee, I want it inspected, at least to 'constructively complete' standards. I seldom see a completed roof the manufacturer will warrant. Very seldom. :(

egg Said: but its frustrating to watch people grapple with a new concept when they are in the middle of making a decision right now... Policy and the Comfort Zone doing their deadly dance together.

Just WOW and AMEN !

tinner666 Said: If we have to pay the fee, I want it inspected, at least to constructively complete standards. I seldom see a completed roof the manufacturer will warrant. Very seldom. :(

What you want is the city to be accountable for its inspections. That ain't going to happen. The Building Code itself puts a giant disclaimer right up front stating that the city will put forth the effort to enforce the Code but makes no guarantees.

Just the other day, I went out to dry in an addition. The framer did a crap job decking. He had used a piece less than 2 feet right in the middle of the roof, did not put in enough nails over the entire deck, and used scraps turned the wrong way. Anybody else would have roofed right over that crap-I see it everyday when I do a tear off. But I got onto the general contractor and he made them put in braces under the scraps. It wasn't the right way to do it, but at least the deck won't be sagging 10 years down the line. I still had to add the nailing because they did not understand that ends are suppose to have at least 9 nails minimum. And what is so hard about setting rafters on 24" centers? I can't believe the scabs they had to add. I tell you-construction trades have gone to pot. Nobody is learning anything anymore.

natty Said:

I tell you-construction trades have gone to pot. Nobody is learning anything anymore.

Depends where you are located. In B.C. a carpenter needs 5000 hours of on the job training plus 4 years at school (6 weeks each time) to get his "red seal" qualification. An electrician needs 6000 hours and 4 years (10 weeks each time) to get his red seal qualification plus work another year and do another code course to be able to pull a permit.

There is also a distinction between learning and doing. Money tends to affect this distinction.

Building inspection is also stringent here with a fee paid based on cost which allows only so many inspections. If your work fails you have to pay for re inspection which is not cheap. Does it cost lots to build here, yes, but everything is done to code or it does not pass. If you protest, they slap on a stop work order and if you continue on they will place a charge on your land title so it shows up if you go to sell. If it is a safety issue the City will bring in its own workers and remove the offending structure and bill your property tax account. A simple sun deck permit will take you about 6-8 weeks to obtain. You need a site survey done, plans, listing of contractors and subs so they can check on business licences, inspection on footings before pouring, framing inspection, final inspection. You just don't throw up a sundeck here anymore. Your permit (big yellow card) has to be visible from the street so if it is not there, a do gooder will probably report you. Our taxes are high to support the bureaucracy, that seems to multiply like rabbits, and we end up with a sterile looking community as a result.

I guess it boils down to this: After 35 years in the roofing business, I don't want to be dictated to by a bureaucratic-minded failed former contractor who doesn't grasp the limits of his authority, and whose ego is fragile. B)

seen-it-all Said:

There is also a distinction between learning and doing. Money tends to affect this distinction.

Seems to me I see a lot of "trainees" doing all of the work and wheeler dealers handling the money.

Most of my work is in reroofing so I am always having to repair work that was never done right. On the small amount of new work I do, I am always having a run in with the other trades. I once showed an old codger carpenter how to run the siding behind my flashing kickout on a wall. I came back later and he totally ignored my instructions. He just said, "we'll caulk it". Yeah, right...

Roofguy Said: I dont want to be dictated to by a bureaucratic-minded failed former contractor who doesnt grasp the limits of his authority, B)

If that is the case, then you must know the law better than he does. Never ask a cop what the law is. He won't know. He follows policy.